[Politics] Brexit

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 7, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Coming up with a Brexit agreement with the EU will obviously take a lot of time. Are you suggesting that once done, the government give us a referendum to accept those terms, or reject them, and if we vote to reject them the government start negotiating with the EU again? That is obviously ridiculous.

I must admit I didn't read the Brexit manifesto. My bad. What will happen then?

Triggaaar · Aug 7, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
I must admit I didn't read the Brexit manifesto. My bad. What will happen then?

The government will agree terms with the EU, and that will be it.

Having a vote on the exit terms would be unworkable.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 7, 2016

Triggaaar said:
The government will agree terms with the EU, and that will be it.

Having a vote on the exit terms would be unworkable.

And there was me thinking the Uk was now a soveign nation.

GT49er · Aug 7, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
Not sulre I follow. What I will say is that if I wanted to leave a club, a bar or restaurant I didn't like I wouldn't wait until next January to do it.

Well, yes, of course. If it was in my power, I'd have activated article 50 (or whatever it's called) the day after independence day - but unfortunately I have to rely on politicians in power - many of whom would like to deny the democratic will of the people - to do it on my behalf.

Triggaaar · Aug 7, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
And there was me thinking the Uk was now a soveign nation.

Eh? Are you a little drunk HT?

vegster · Aug 7, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Coming up with a Brexit agreement with the EU will obviously take a lot of time. Are you suggesting that once done, the government give us a referendum to accept those terms, or reject them, and if we vote to reject them the government start negotiating with the EU again? That is obviously ridiculous.

You're just saying exactly the same as you said before the referendum, and we didn't agree with you then either.

I'm not worried what either one of you think, I'm more worried that we are stuffed. Still, my working life was crap before the EU and will merely trudge on the same or worse post brexit thanks to the loss of EU Membership.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 7, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Eh? Are you a little drunk HT?

Not at all. The U.K. is a parliamentary soveign state so I'd expect our MPs to debate and vote on stuff that significantly effects us....especially any new legislation which will be needed.

GT49er · Aug 7, 2016

vegster said:
I'm not worried what either one of you think, I'm more worried that we are stuffed. Still, my working life was crap before the EU and will merely trudge on the same or worse post brexit thanks to the loss of EU Membership.

If we are stuffed (not that I think we are) then you, as one of us, are obviously stuffed. Of course, you could just give up on trying to make self-fulfilling prophesies.

GT49er · Aug 7, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
Not at all. The U.K. is a parliamentary soveign state so I'd expect our MPs to debate and vote on stuff that significantly effects us....especially any new legislation which will be needed.

But debate, or no debate, trying to overthrow the democratic will of the majority of the people is never going to end well.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 7, 2016

GT49er said:
But debate, or no debate, trying to overthrow the democratic will of the majority of the people is never going to end well.

But this is my point. What was the democratic will? The question was a simplistic remain or leave the EU. If the government decided on the Norway model, with all the stuff which goes with it, it will satisfy the referendum question but will it represent the will of the people? I doubt it.

pastafarian · Aug 7, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
Is it as simple as this? The referendum question was to leave the EU. Would the country be able to sign up to, say the Norwegian model, without any further vote? This model satisfies the "out of the EU" element but it's probably not what people voted for? Or maybe it is? My point being there should be some sort of vote on the exit terms don't you think?

You seem to have changed your tune now that you are on the losing side.
Previously you were against referendums and the public having a vote on important issues saying the government should just govern.
well here is a perfect opportunity for the government to govern and negotiate the exit from the EU with a British model …….dont you think?

Hampster Gull · Aug 7, 2016

This whole win lose terminology from the brexiteers doesnt sit well with their often ised one nation and live with the result demands. We will see where this takes us, what can be negotiated and what parties stand for at the next election. There are many turns ahead

Hampster Gull · Aug 7, 2016

Triggaaar said:
What law says they have that right? They already had a vote and decided to stay. What about the English, should we be given the right for self determination?

They already voted - did you miss it?

yes, why not have an english vote on whether to stay in the union. Of course efents have materially changed sine all but London, NI and Scotland voted to leave the EU so they have the right to pose,the question again when thry want. but its not for me or you to decide whether the scots stay or go, that will be their will.

smeg · Aug 7, 2016

GT49er said:
Well, yes, of course. If it was in my power, I'd have activated article 50 (or whatever it's called) the day after independence day - but unfortunately I have to rely on politicians in power - many of whom would like to deny the democratic will of the people - to do it on my behalf.

This is one of my main problems with the Brexit vote, it's not in your power or mine but the grubby hands of politicians. Worse than that it is now up to the unelected more right wing of the Tory party to make those decisions on our behalf and history indicates they certainly won't have my best interests at heart.

GT49er · Aug 7, 2016

Hampster Gull said:
yes, why not have an english vote on whether to stay in the union. Of course efents have materially changed sine all but London, NI and Scotland voted to leave the EU so they have the right to pose,the question again when thry want. but its not for me or you to decide whether the scots stay or go, that will be their will.

You conveniently seem to forget that the decision on whether the Scots (or the Northern Irish) have a referendum is in the hands of the UK Parliament at Westminster; it's not just something that people can decide to have for themselves, willy-nilly.

GoldWithFalmer · Aug 7, 2016

I had a dream last night.....weird thing was it involved Brexit (god help me by the way) anyway in the dream UKIP said to somebody the queen or king maybe.......that they were ready to govern the country as they were the party with the largest following of some 220 seats?

thanks and as you were.

ManOfSussex · Aug 7, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
I had a dream last night.....weird thing was it involved Brexit (god help me by the way) anyway in the dream UKIP said to somebody the queen or king maybe.......that they were ready to govern the country as they were the party with the largest following of some 220 seats?

thanks and as you were.

Who held the other 430 seats in the dream?

Hampster Gull · Aug 7, 2016

GT49er said:
You conveniently seem to forget that the decision on whether the Scots (or the Northern Irish) have a referendum is in the hands of the UK Parliament at Westminster; it's not just something that people can decide to have for themselves, willy-nilly.

Ah, got you. They will be ruled whatever they want. Yes, that worked really well for the empire

GoldWithFalmer · Aug 7, 2016

ManOfSussex said:
Who held the other 430 seats in the dream?

This is the point,some kind of meltdown of the political system...

Hampster Gull · Aug 7, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
This is the point,some kind of meltdown of the political system...

Perhaps the Nsc exiteers had the remaining seats

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