Ched Evans

severnside gull · Jan 5, 2015

drew said:
What a bizarre comment. His opinion is far from irrelevant and where have I rewritten history?

As for your so called apology, why would he admit to rape when he believes it was consensual. How is that going to stand up with his claim of innocence and the process currently going through CCRC!

You would hold your hand up and admit you are a rapist even if you know a girl you had sex with had definitely said yes? I find that a very odd admission to make.
?

Please do read before you respond.
His opinion of whether his actions were right or wrong is entirely irrelevant to the fact that a court of law found him guilty of rape.
You are (or appear to be) suggesting that because he says it was untrue then it must be so. That is rewriting factual history insofar as a court of law found against him.
I have not said I would admit to rape if I thought I had not committed it. I have said that I would accept that a court of law had found against me (no matter I continued to protest innocence) and that insofar as I accept the rule of law I was remorseful towards the victim for the hurt they had suffered.
I am not overly clear why some people are happy to accept his evidence and discount that of the victim even when a court accepted her version and her right to say no. However I would expand on that. In his circumstances I would have indicated my remorse for their hurt even if I had been found not guilty. That is called compassion and an awareness of what is acceptable in ones behaviour within society.

The CCRC process as I understand it is not an appeal and is not about guilt or innocence but about legal process.

At this stage however, an indication of remorse for the suffering caused might well go in his favour in many respects

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2015

severnside gull said:
You can rewrite history all you want but a court decided that it was RAPE not consensual sex. To that extent his opinion of what happened is an irrelevance and shouldn't in any event prevent him showing contrition to the victim.

A court decided the Guilford 4 were guilty of bombing pubs, and killing people. Do you think they should have shown remorse?

Thunder Bolt said:
She didn't help herself with her tweets (since deleted) and Facebook entries (also deleted)
That's why I have doubts about this conviction.

What did she say, and when did she say it?

severnside gull · Jan 5, 2015

Triggaaar said:
A court decided the Guilford 4 were guilty of bombing pubs, and killing people. Do you think they should have shown remorse?

Poor analogy. He admits to having sexual intercourse. The issue is whether it was consensual at all stages.
A bit like a bomber putting explosives in place then saying because they issued a warning the victims knew what was going to happen and should have left before it went off

severnside gull · Jan 5, 2015

Mellotron said:
But you wouldn't see them as the victim if you were in his shoe's and believe what he believes. You would see them as the perpetrator.

A good and fair point - it's an outlook that has turned him into a victim though isn't it?
Perhaps ultimately the biggest victim of the whole affair and he could have avoided that

London Irish · Jan 5, 2015

severnside gull said:
Poor analogy. He admits to having sexual intercourse. The issue is whether it was consensual at all stages.
A bit like a bomber putting explosives in place then saying because they issued a warning the victims knew what was going to happen and should have left before it went off

Yep, the true analogy would be Evans admitted he bombed Guildford but hey, there was nothing wrong with doing that - and getting his online mob of fans to harrass Guildford bomb survivors

Thunder Bolt · Jan 5, 2015

Triggaaar said:
A court decided the Guilford 4 were guilty of bombing pubs, and killing people. Do you think they should have shown remorse?

What did she say, and when did she say it?

I think it's on his website but one of the tweets was about how she was going to spend all the money when she got her payout.

severnside gull · Jan 5, 2015

London Irish said:
Yep, the true analogy would be Evans admitted he bombed Guildford but hey, there was nothing wrong with doing that - and getting his online mob of fans to harrass Guildford bomb survivors

You've been to Guildford then!

apology for gallows humour

hans kraay fan club · Jan 5, 2015

Thunder Bolt said:
I think it's on his website but one of the tweets was about how she was going to spend all the money when she got her payout.

And?

In what respect does that have ANY bearing, on the events that led to the case coming to court?

Thunder Bolt · Jan 5, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
And?

In what respect does that have ANY bearing, on the events that led to the case coming to court?

You tell me. It's hardly the act of a poor anonymous victim.
I'm not standing up for him, but think that this case isn't as open and shut as most people think it is. I also dislike all the faux outrage on social websites and in the media.

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2015

severnside gull said:
Poor analogy. He admits to having sexual intercourse. The issue is whether it was consensual at all stages.

It's not at all a poor analogy. IF he knows that she consented, then he knows no crime was committed, and so why would he apologise? (please remember I am talking hypothetically, and am not suggesting she consented).

You said "a court decided that it was RAPE not consensual sex. To that extent his opinion of what happened is an irrelevance"
Well a court decided the Guilford 4 were guilty of bombing pubs, and killing people. It's a perfect analogy.

A bit like a bomber putting explosives in place then saying because they issued a warning the victims knew what was going to happen and should have left before it went off

Now that is a poor analogy, because putting explosives in a place and giving a warning is a crime, having consensual sex is not.

glasfryn · Jan 5, 2015

has anyone read the article about the accusation of rape against Jonny Evans (MU) this makes interesting reading in the light of whats going on

hans kraay fan club · Jan 5, 2015

Thunder Bolt said:
You tell me. It's hardly the act of a poor anonymous victim.

And? Her character is not on trial. His actions are. Nobody has pretended she's a beacon of righteousness. Its the Evans mob, that have perpetuated the myth that people have done so.

Thunder Bolt said:
I'm not standing up for him,

You are, though.

Thunder Bolt said:
I also dislike all the faux outrage on social websites and in the media.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but my outrage at people acting as apologists for rape, is far from 'faux'.

Comments like the one earlier about her 'not being dragged down an alley' and yours about her character, are extremely distasteful to many, in the context of this debate.

Mellotron · Jan 5, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but my outrage at people acting as apologists for rape, is far from 'faux'.

Please point me to the rape apologists in this thread.

hans kraay fan club · Jan 5, 2015

Mellotron said:
Please point me to the rape apologists in this thread.

I'm not going through 1500 posts to quote them all for you, sorry.

But there are plenty in here, ticking all the following boxes:

1. She was up for it.
2. Its just a good night out.
3. She's no angel (she was asking for it)
4. She went back with McDonald, so she was 'game'.
5. Its not like it was a proper rape, anyway.

etc, etc.

Surprised at your stance [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION]
Genuinely.

symyjym · Jan 5, 2015

glasfryn said:
has anyone read the article about the accusation of rape against Jonny Evans (MU) this makes interesting reading in the light of whats going on

No, have you got a link?

I found this one that is related to the incident http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...layer-cleared-Christmas-party-rape-probe.html

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
Surprised at your stance @Mellotron
Genuinely.

What is Mellotron's stance?

Questions · Jan 5, 2015

Is this true he is quite likely to be playing at Oldham soon ?
I just caught the back end of it on the news.

Mellotron · Jan 5, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
I'm not going through 1500 posts to quote them all for you, sorry.

But there are plenty in here, ticking all the following boxes:

1. She was up for it.
2. Its just a good night out.
3. She's no angel (she was asking for it)
4. She went back with McDonald, so she was 'game'.
5. Its not like it was a proper rape, anyway.

etc, etc.

Surprised at your stance [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION]
Genuinely.

I just find it bizarre that people can't understand why, with everything that's happened and that Evans BELIEVES to be true, he isn't particularly looking to show any remorse. He's probably incredibly angry and upset about the whole thing, I think remorse is the last thing on his mind.

I don't think the above are rape apologist comments at all. They're people who believe (rightly or wrongly) that there was NO rape.

That's like being a vase apologist when there is no vase...

glasfryn · Jan 5, 2015

symyjym said:
No, have you got a link?

I found this one that is related to the incident http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...layer-cleared-Christmas-party-rape-probe.html

yep thats the one I read, the disturbing thing I read was that girls were bussed into the party, but I am sure not all footballers are like this .....are they?

Jolene81 · Jan 5, 2015

Can some one answer a query for me? If the girl had no recollection of the incident, including going to the hotel, then how did she know she had sex with both men? Was this something she reported and they agreed with her series of events or did she make the complaint about both parties?
I'm sure it's covered in earlier posts but it 100 pages lol and I can imagine I will get pissed off with some comments if I read them all

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