Hosham UKIP public meeting tonight in Horsham at 19:30

cunning fergus · Oct 20, 2014

Creaky said:
At least he had the good grace to do so in private.

As I said earlier the moral compass of all parties and politicians can be questioned - what Farage and UKIP have done though by forming an alliance with the likes of Iwaszkiewicz is beyond the pale and brings the whole of UK politics into disrepute on the world stage.

I am assuming you are a UKIP supporter, if you are do you not feel any embarrasment over this or can UKIP really do no wrong.

I'm just not a fan of the EU, and I would rather it was the old Labour values that supported and protected the British working class that precipitated our exit. Those who think that an uncontrolled labour market is in the interests of the British working class are just mad. Old labour understood it, new labour don't.

So to quote Churchill again..........

lawros left foot · Oct 20, 2014

cunning fergus said:
What is the basis for that argument, even Labour (based on recent articles and recent conference) now accept that an unrestricted labour market (based on the EU principle of freedom of movement) has been detrimental to British workers interests, particularly the low skilled. Do you really think they are wrong?

The reality is that as bad as it is in the UK it's much worse for workers in the EU and particularly some of the EZ countries. This is all of their own making by not managing the euro properly. Even the EU leaders recognise the unfolding catastrophe.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/...uelling-social-injustice-and-violating-human-

Once these workers realise that the solution to their problems is to surrender fiscal sovereignty to unelected technocrats and ze Germans, do you honestly think things will get better for the EU?

I was referring more to compulsory holiday pay, sick pay, work time directive, all the workers rights that UKIP want to get rid of. The Tories won't need much persuading to ditch these either if we are outside the EU.

brighton fella · Oct 20, 2014

Soulman said:
From ex radio 1 DJ Mike Read. Click on UKIP Calypso at top left, arrow shows user disabled.

bring it on.

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2014

lawros left foot said:
Do you really believe that the French, Germans etc would be so keen to trade with us? Realistically they would be more likely to tell us to take a running jump at ourselves, and apply pressure non EU countries to do the same. Do you really think the global banks would keep London, outside the EU, as the major financial centre in Europe? Do you really believe thatmajor global companies, would wnt to keep manufacturing plants here, outside the EU if we werent in the European club? If you do, you have far more faith in those companies, and our European partners than I do

Yes I do as they currently trade with Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. There is no evidence to suggest EU members would stop trading with us. And therein lies the point, neither side of the argument can provide solid evidence what would happen after a withdrawal because :

a. There has never been one
b. There is no mechanism within the EU rules to determine what happens when a country leaves - that can only have been a major oversight or complete arrogance.
c. Both sides are going to make wild accusations. Those pro-EU want to paint a picture of complete Armageddon if we leave and those anti-EU will always paint a picture of paradise if we leave. That said many 'experts' and pro-EU'ers claimed we'd be dead ducks if we didn't join the Euro - how right they were :facepalm:

BHAFC_Pandapops said:
Absolutely resent UKIP. They claim to represent what We think as a country. When we argue with them they say "well it's what we were all thinking". Hell, they even quote World War Two as being the war which was fought to ensure Liberty. The liberty to afford those of all colour and creed to simply exist. Which is extremely ironic given that they seem to have an irrational, misguided hatred toward Jews, LGBT, Immigrants and Muslims.

They can piss off back into their festering gutter.

What a well argued and balanced point .... not. Care to show some evidence of those claims - either evidence against those on here who have shown support for UKIP hate those groups or even published UKIP policies that back the hatred of those groups up ? Strange how your post shows more hatred than nearly every other post in this thread don't you think ?

lawros left foot said:
It's bad now, and if we left, with not even the EU worker protection that we have now, it would be ten times worse. If the workers of this country voted to leave the EU it would be turkeys voting for Christmas

What EU worker protection is that then ? And I mean rules and regulations that were instigated by the EU not those instigated by an elected British government of any colour.

brighton fella · Oct 20, 2014

anyone who isn't going to be voting UKIP in 2015 only means one thing.. and that is you are happy to see Britain become a communist state.
schulz, barroso, van Rompuy wet rag and the rest of his cronies at the EU are all communists, research them if you don't believe me.

lawros left foot · Oct 20, 2014

brighton fella said:
anyone who isn't going to be voting UKIP in 2015 only means one thing.. and that is you are happy to see Britain become a communist state.
schulz, barroso, van Rompuy wet rag and the rest of his cronies at the EU are all communists, research them if you don't believe me.

No, vote UKIP, get Labour, and everyone knows Eds a commie, ask the Daily Mail

Creaky · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
What EU worker protection is that then ? And I mean rules and regulations that were instigated by the EU not those instigated by an elected British government of any colour.

What immediately springs to mind is the EU Working Times Regulations

Creaky · Oct 20, 2014

brighton fella said:
anyone who isn't going to be voting UKIP in 2015 only means one thing.. and that is you are happy to see Britain become a communist state.
schulz, barroso, van Rompuy wet rag and the rest of his cronies at the EU are all communists, research them if you don't believe me.

If we are going to discuss this with hyperbole then I'd rather see the UK as a communist state than a fascist one.

lawros left foot · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
Yes I do as they currently trade with Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. There is no evidence to suggest EU members would stop trading with us. And therein lies the point, neither side of the argument can provide solid evidence what would happen after a withdrawal because :

a. There has never been one
b. There is no mechanism within the EU rules to determine what happens when a country leaves - that can only have been a major oversight or complete arrogance.
c. Both sides are going to make wild accusations. Those pro-EU want to paint a picture of complete Armageddon if we leave and those anti-EU will always paint a picture of paradise if we leave. That said many 'experts' and pro-EU'ers claimed we'd be dead ducks if we didn't join the Euro - how right they were

What a well argued and balanced point .... not. Care to show some evidence of those claims - either evidence against those on here who have shown support for UKIP hate those groups or even published UKIP policies that back the hatred of those groups up ? Strange how your post shows more hatred than nearly every other post in this thread don't you think ?

What EU worker protection is that then ? And I mean rules and regulations that were instigated by the EU not those instigated by an elected British government of any colour.

Iceland, Norway and Switzerland were never in the EU, so never left. We would embarrass the EU if we left, they would take their revenge in the shape of ruining our economy, perhaps I'm more anti-European than you, or just more realistic

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2014

Creaky said:
What immediately springs to mind is the EU Working Times Regulations

You mean the directive the UK has an deal on allowing people to opt out ? The directive that a majority of contracts now automatically opt you out of which leaves a worker having to opt back in if they want ? Yep, that one worked well.

Creaky · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
You mean the directive the UK has an deal on allowing people to opt out ? The directive that a majority of contracts now automatically opt you out of which leaves a work having to opt back in if they want ? Yep, that one worked well.

A somewhat distorted view of the real impact that directive has had - in any case get your teeth into this lot from the London Chamber of Commerce.

A number of EU Directives listed together with the UK legislation implementing them.

http://www.londonchamber.co.uk/DocImages/1154.pdf

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2014

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lawros left foot said:
Iceland, Norway and Switzerland were never in the EU, so never left. We would embarrass the EU if we left, they would take their revenge in the shape of ruining our economy, perhaps I'm more anti-European than you, or just more realistic

You seriously believe that the rest of the EU would sulk, stamp their feet and scream like a child because a member has the tenacity to leave ? If the EU can't be grown up about a country democratically electing to leave then they deserve no members. But of course the EU don't like democracy - that's why any country that rejects a treaty change via referendum is told to go back and vote again until they get the right answer. Strange how countries that vote in favour don't get a second chance don't you think ?

brighton fella · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
What EU worker protection is that then ? And I mean rules and regulations that were instigated by the EU not those instigated by an elected British government of any colour.

I'd be happy to see them rules get thrown out of the window if honest, protect the workers my a*se. more like another trade unionist stitch up if you ask me, full of bureaucracy and red tape weve seen it all before and were it leads us.

lawros left foot · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
[

You seriously believe that the rest of the EU would sulk, stamp their feet and scream like a child because a member has the tenacity to leave ? If the EU can't be grown up about a country democratically electing to leave then they deserve no members. But of course the EU don't like democracy - that's why any country that rejects a treaty change via referendum is told to go back and vote again until they get the right answer. Strange how countries that vote in favour don't get a second chance don't you think ?

The Americans had a good go at ruining our economy in the Sixties because Wilson wouldn't take us into Vietnam, who's to say the Europeans wouldn't do the same

brighton fella · Oct 20, 2014

Creaky said:
If we are going to discuss this with hyperbole then I'd rather see the UK as a communist state than a fascist one.

there is no blo*dy difference both are state controlled. you carry on then if that's what makes you happy.. be a happy member in a controlled state run by a dictatorship.

brighton fella · Oct 20, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
[

You seriously believe that the rest of the EU would sulk, stamp their feet and scream like a child because a member has the tenacity to leave ? If the EU can't be grown up about a country democratically electing to leave then they deserve no members. But of course the EU don't like democracy - that's why any country that rejects a treaty change via referendum is told to go back and vote again until they get the right answer. Strange how countries that vote in favour don't get a second chance don't you think ?

if that aint communism I really don't know what is, they then introduced a made up bit of nonsense known as the Lisbon treaty, in other words they can do as they like if a policy aint seen to be going their way. the quicker we opt out of this farcical the better.

Leighgull · Oct 21, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
What EU worker protection is that then ? And I mean rules and regulations that were instigated by the EU not those instigated by an elected British government of any colour.

The Healthcare Worker Safety Directive. This requires hospitals in member states to stop using unprotected sharps thereby preventing thousands of Nurses, Doctors, cleaners etc. from being accidentally stabbed with contaminated needles. It required all purchasers who, hitherto, were engaged in a race to the bottom buying the cheapest and nastiest blood access devices to stop doing so and buy well engineered products that automatically re-sheath needles after use.

It's probably saved 1m nurses from having the trauma of blood testing for Hepatitis, HIV and other blood borne pathogens caused by them being stabbed with dirty needles when going about their jobs. How's that? Any use?

Brian Potter · Oct 21, 2014

Leighgull said:
The Healthcare Worker Safety Directive. This requires hospitals in member states to stop using unprotected sharps thereby preventing thousands of Nurses, Doctors, cleaners etc. from being accidentally stabbed with contaminated needles. It required all purchasers who, hitherto, were engaged in a race to the bottom buying the cheapest and nastiest blood access devices to stop doing so and buy well engineered products that automatically re-sheath needles after use.

It's probably saved 1m nurses from having the trauma of blood testing for Hepatitis, HIV and other blood borne pathogens caused by them being stabbed with dirty needles when going about their jobs. How's that? Any use?

Ok. But apart from The Healthcare Worker Safety Directive.. what have the EU done for us?? :moo:

pastafarian · Oct 21, 2014

lawros left foot said:
Do you really believe that the French, Germans etc would be so keen to trade with us? Realistically they would be more likely to tell us to take a running jump at ourselves, and apply pressure non EU countries to do the same.

Is this what you really believe the EU would do,are you honestly trying to say if we left the EU that other countries in the EU would refuse to enter into new trade agreements with us worth billions because we left their "club" and they would publicly support a boycott in trading with the UK?

jakarta · Oct 21, 2014

pastafarian said:
Is this what you really believe the EU would do,are you honestly trying to say if we left the EU that other countries in the EU would refuse to enter into new trade agreements with us worth billions because we left their "club" and they would publicly support a boycott in trading with the UK?

I'm afraid it is highly likely that BMW and Mercedes would shut up shop in the UK if we left.

Why not as they can quite easily sell their cars in the rest of the EU; for example those thriving economies Greece, Spain, Italy......

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