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Virgo v Stockdale



dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,655
Burgess Hill
Mo Gosfield said:
The arguments for and against David Stockdale.
1) Against.
In 50 years of watching BHA, I have not seen a keeper make so many errors over the course of the season and still be retained for that whole season as no.1 choice. I have not seen a keeper make so many different types of errors over a whole season.
DS is largely a one-sided keeper. Very strong on his left, much weaker on his right side. I have watched him all season being beaten low to his right, across him, from the angle. His natural inclination is to set himself to his left every time, which doesn't give him the recovery time to get to his right. He can't get down to these low shots and he can't get up and over to free-kicks. It is a major flaw in his game ( he's not the only keeper to suffer from it....many favour one side over the other ) and he seriously needs to work at it. This may be the harshest piece of comment but I have not seen him save one deflected shot all season.
Reports seem to suggest that he is not the hardest worker on the training ground. Worrying, if he genuinely thinks he is the finished article. I admire confidence but judging on this seasons display, it is misplaced.
2) For.
He makes some spectacularly good saves, almost all on his left side. The penalty save v Birmingham was very good. Generally, he deals with crosses well and his kicking out is some of the best I have seen from a BHA keeper. He seems to marshal the defence pretty well and has proved himself in one on one situations, with brave blocks.

Overall, it is mystifying to me why he errs so regularly. Is it loss of concentration? Is there an inherent lack of confidence from early season, that he hasn't been able to shrug off? Is it down to over-confidence? Does he just have too many weaknesses, that have now surfaced in a struggling side, under pressure?
I hope that it is one poor season that he can put right next time out. If he continues to make a range errors at the start of next season ( handling, positional, judgemental ) then he will have to be rested. A lot of people have given him the benefit of the doubt this season and they will expect much more consistency, next.
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Good summary, on balance I'd rather we had him than not but he needs to stop this over-sensitive crap.

Amazed the club doesn't have a social media policy that prevents players getting involved in rubbish like this - never going to look good for anyone regardless of the outcome. Both protagonists end up looking like d*cks whatever your point of view and it does the club no good at all.
 




El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,716
Pattknull med Haksprut
sheebo said:
Oh well at least people are putting their respective opinions out there in a fairly nice manner for this debate - exactly what NSC should be...

I do find some people talk players up a lot more while they're playing for us and then quickly change their opinion when they move on (I think we are all guilty of this to different degrees).

I don't think people give Kusch the credit he deserved as was v solid on the whole. Stockdale hasn't been yet although I do think he has potential to do well - and he obviously cares about his job a lot...
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I think his decision making and leaden footedness at times has cost us dear, but he has also made some excellent saves and earned us points.

The penalty save against Birmingham probably was the turning point this season in keeping us up.

For me he is player of the season, which is more of an indictment of the rest of the squad, as I think he's had a 6/10 season overall.
 


K

Kent Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,062
Tenterden, Kent
Interesting how much blame for this seasons failings have been attached to goalkeeper who has only let in 3 more goals than the team currently top of the table! On our defensive form alone we are up there with the promotion pack.
 


Dick Head

Dick Head

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Jan 3, 2010
13,646
Quaxxann
Prince Monolulu said:
Aaah well, I think he's won us many more points than he's lost us this season. Magnified by a lack of goals scored, I think he has played a major part in keeping us up overall. I'll take that.
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I agree.

Screenshot from 2015-04-23 08:47:32.png Screenshot from 2015-04-23 08:46:37.png
 


Dick Head

Dick Head

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Jan 3, 2010
13,646
Quaxxann
The Wizard said:
Both need to grow up but it does irritate me slightly how Stockdale seems to get so defensive, you're a professional footballer if you're going to get butthurt about things people say on social media you're going to spend your whole life very angry and defensive.

Football pundit in criticising player SHOCK.
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He needs to get a bit more defensive.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,457
Chandlers Ford
Tory Boy said:
Sooner have Virgo than the normal Albion sycophants.

Most commentators are worried about being chucked off the Albion gravy train.

Quite refreshing that someone isn't an Albion patsy.

TB
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Aspinall, for all his mispronounced names, offers ten times the insight that Virgo does, and is certainly not afraid to highlight the club's shortcomings. He's also prone to let inside transfer gossip slip, which is entertaining.

Virgo needs to have a listen back to a few of his co-commentaries. There a difference between saying it how it is, and being unrelentingly negative. Someone earlier likened him to Boycott. There's truth in that, for sure.
 




Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,867
Brighton
Shatner's Bassoon said:
Completely agree with this. Personally I don't think Stockdale is a bad keeper, but I think he's had a poor season on the whole, and in my opinion his defenders on here are - perhaps understandably - overcompensating for the criticism he's received.

But I really get annoyed with some of the revisionism on TK: he was superb for us and the idea that he was anything other than excellent is misguided.
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This. Stockdale is a very good keeper having a poor season. His raw ability is fantastic but his decision making every 2-3 games is erratic and costs far more goals than Kusz, while also possibly saving 1 or 2 shots that Kusz wouldn't have got to. He will come good.
 






Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,867
Brighton
Mo Gosfield said:
The arguments for and against David Stockdale.
1) Against.
In 50 years of watching BHA, I have not seen a keeper make so many errors over the course of the season and still be retained for that whole season as no.1 choice. I have not seen a keeper make so many different types of errors over a whole season.
DS is largely a one-sided keeper. Very strong on his left, much weaker on his right side. I have watched him all season being beaten low to his right, across him, from the angle. His natural inclination is to set himself to his left every time, which doesn't give him the recovery time to get to his right. He can't get down to these low shots and he can't get up and over to free-kicks. It is a major flaw in his game ( he's not the only keeper to suffer from it....many favour one side over the other ) and he seriously needs to work at it. This may be the harshest piece of comment but I have not seen him save one deflected shot all season.
Reports seem to suggest that he is not the hardest worker on the training ground. Worrying, if he genuinely thinks he is the finished article. I admire confidence but judging on this seasons display, it is misplaced.
2) For.
He makes some spectacularly good saves, almost all on his left side. The penalty save v Birmingham was very good. Generally, he deals with crosses well and his kicking out is some of the best I have seen from a BHA keeper. He seems to marshal the defence pretty well and has proved himself in one on one situations, with brave blocks.

Overall, it is mystifying to me why he errs so regularly. Is it loss of concentration? Is there an inherent lack of confidence from early season, that he hasn't been able to shrug off? Is it down to over-confidence? Does he just have too many weaknesses, that have now surfaced in a struggling side, under pressure?
I hope that it is one poor season that he can put right next time out. If he continues to make a range errors at the start of next season ( handling, positional, judgemental ) then he will have to be rested. A lot of people have given him the benefit of the doubt this season and they will expect much more consistency, next.
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Superb post that perfectly sums it up.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,244
Surrey
hans kraay fan club said:
Aspinall, for all his mispronounced names, offers ten times the insight that Virgo does, and is certainly not afraid to highlight the club's shortcomings. He's also prone to let inside transfer gossip slip, which is entertaining.

Virgo needs to have a listen back to a few of his co-commentaries. There a difference between saying it how it is, and being unrelentingly negative. Someone earlier likened him to Boycott. There's truth in that, for sure.
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Exactly this, 100%. Virgo isn't a patch on Aspinall when it comes to his reading of the game (and arguably, the club). To be fair, there isn't a summariser I'd rather see in place of Aspinall.


But in this instance, Virgo was only doing his job. Stockdale needs to just take it on the chin and needs to grow a thicker skin and take all opinions with a pinch of salt. It reminds me of Micky Adams in his first promotion season telling me and some of the other match-sponsor group after one game, that he didn't like Clive Walker. When we asked why, it was because Walker had the temerity to suggest on SSN that we might lose to non-league Aldershot in the FA Cup. What a pillock.
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,600
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Simster said:
Exactly this, 100%. Virgo isn't a patch on Aspinall when it comes to his reading of the game (and arguably, the club). To be fair, there isn't a summariser I'd rather see in place of Aspinall.


But in this instance, Virgo was only doing his job. Stockdale needs to just take it on the chin and needs to grow a thicker skin and take all opinions with a pinch of salt. It reminds me of Micky Adams in his first promotion season telling me and some of the other match-sponsor group after one game, that he didn't like Clive Walker. When we asked why, it was because Walker had the temerity to suggest on SSN that we might lose to non-league Aldershot in the FA Cup. What a pillock.
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Virgo's job is to commentate on the radio and tv. It isn't to criticise on Twitter. You don't see Andy Naylor, Brian Owen, or Johnny Cantor doing it.
I think he feels it is cool to criticise, whereas I think he should try to be more balanced in his opinions. Praise where praise is due, and criticise when warranted, but on air.
 


Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,870
West west west Sussex
hans kraay fan club said:
Someone earlier likened him to Boycott. There's truth in that, for sure.
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I wish I'd added 'only without the back catalogue'.

Virgo, at best, was only ever a medium sized fish in a very small pond.

To listen to him, you'd think he had to build an extension to house his footballing honours.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,457
Chandlers Ford
Thunder Bolt said:
Virgo's job is to commentate on the radio and tv. It isn't to criticise on Twitter. You don't see Andy Naylor, Brian Owen, or Johnny Cantor doing it.
I think he feels it is cool to criticise, whereas I think he should try to be more balanced in his opinions. Praise where praise is due, and criticise when warranted, but on air.
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You don't see serious journalists doing it. Only the kind of knobs who end up presenting a slot on TalkSport.

Which is a shame, because Virgo isn't a knob at all. He's a really nice lad who I've loads of time for. He needs to tone down this stuff.

What I will say for Virgo is that I find his punditry much better on non Albion games. The stuff he contributes to the Conference coverage on BT Sport is good. I'm not sure why he goes so ultra negative when analysing the Albion. Perhaps it is because he CARES about the Albion's fortunes. Or perhaps it just sounds more negative to me because I'm naturally defensive of my club.
 




H

Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,733
I really like Virgs. Have met him a few times and he is indeed a decent chap, but i find this spat quite unedifying truth be told. I like Stockdale, I think he's actually been pretty decent this year and one look at our defensive record shows that he and his fellow defenders have not been the problem this season. I'm not surprised he takes this criticism poorly but really he should rise above it and ignore it. Not sure that Twitter is a healthy place to be for players in a poor season, it rarely makes good reading.
 


Iggle Piggle

Iggle Piggle

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
5,383
My worry with all this is that people who can't take criticism (which Stockdale clearly can't) rarely learn from their mistakes. If Stockdale thinks he has been perfect this season, we are in for more of the same next year and he isn't going to improve like some on this thread expect him to. It's going to be a test of CH's managerial skills if nothing else.

Whether Stockdale likes it or not, he has put a big bullseye on his head for Twitter wind up merchants. He needs to watch a DVD box set and luzz the smart phone in a cupboard.
 


Man of Harveys

Man of Harveys

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
18,739
Brighton, UK
Tory Boy said:
Sooner have Virgo than the normal Albion sycophants.

Most commentators are worried about being chucked off the Albion gravy train.

Quite refreshing that someone isn't an Albion patsy.

TB
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Exactly this. And the same goes for Aspinall.

I'd be surprised if someone at the club hadn't leaned on SCR in some way - with varying degrees of subtlety - to try and get them to engender a more positive atmosphere, or some such cr*p: that's why Barber was very angry with the Argus before, preposterously. As if it's their job to be nothing more than his cheerleaders.

But the fact that Virgo and Aspinally tend to point out to some very well-paid, very precious young cry babies that they might not be quite as good as they think they are is VITALLY important IMHO - they are both to be praised and cherished for doing so.
 






StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
9,793
BC, Canada
I don't really like either of them to be honest.

Virgo comes off as a bit of a Twitter troll, against players of his old club.
Stockdale shouldn't bite, get of Twatter and concentrate on his game.

Either way I really don't care that much.
 




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