Burke pull your finger out

Grombleton · Jul 26, 2014

B.W. said:
Not really. His job (or a key part of it) is to get players in. He failed to make the signings we needed in Jan. And, so far this window, he is failing again. If you can't see that, then it's your problem.

See, it's easy to make things work for you - his job is to identify players to bring and and once the manager is happy with them, then he can continue negotiations. If he has gather a good list of players and the Head Coach has turned them down then he has still done his job - it is Oscar who in January did not do his job in helping identify players. It's not that hard to grasp.

B.W. said:
All fair enough. My view is we are ALREADY behind target in terms of getting players in. Even if we signed 5 by end of today, it would still be a poor show IMHO.

So that basically says that whatever Burke does, you're going to criticise him for it? Well thankfully you have **** all say in how the club is run, or it'd be run into the ground within a month. Get your head out of your arse, understand a reasoned argument and stop being such a miserable ****.

Justice · Jul 26, 2014

TB is a property developer I come across many in my line of work, one thing they all have in common is that they are all miserable ****ers when it comes to spending money.

Developing/building property or purchasing land is one thing, shelling out for anything other than that and they have issues. I can imagine Burke's job is difficult to say the least as he has to go to TB with the transfer fees players expected wages etc only to be told find someone cheaper. I might be way of the mark of course but I doubt it.

El Presidente · Jul 27, 2014

Justice said:
TB is a property developer I come across many in my line of work, one thing they all have in common is that they are all miserable ****ers when it comes to spending money.

Developing/building property or purchasing land is one thing, shelling out for anything other than that and they have issues. I can imagine Burke's job is difficult to say the least as he has to go to TB with the transfer fees players expected wages etc only to be told find someone cheaper. I might be way of the mark of course but I doubt it.

Eh?

TB has spent £150m on the stadium and training facilities, AND another £50m subsidising the operational losses for the last few years, which includes wages and other player costs.

You are about as way 'of' the mark as Jonnie Obika's overhead kick.

Iggle Piggle · Jul 27, 2014

I've thoroughly enjoyed some of [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] nuggets of info on this thread. It always helps give a more rounded view of the Albion world.

There are though a few things that don't quite add up. Oscar appears to have turned down quality signings but then rubber stamped David Rodriguez. When he decided to bugger off the inference was transfer policy. How could he complain if some of the names we are guessing at were true? Also, why did TB ask him to sleep on his resignation for 24 hrs? If all he ever did was sit in his office (or not as the case maybe on transfer deadline day), delegate training to NJ and Vito ex England Internationals as targets, surely he would have bitten his hand off when he offered to go? Sadly, we are unlikely to get Oscars view of the world on this one

One last thing. The system is a joke. Surely the window should close when the season starts? I know it's not as simple as that given it's a myriad of linked leagues but most top divisions are well under way by 1st September.

Bozza · Jul 27, 2014

Barnham Seagull said:
Tony might be a good poker player and may like a bit of brinkmanship but if the other players know your hand we are not going to get far.

We will be slightly out bid every time.

So, using the Ward case as an example, what do you suggest is the best approach? You carefully calculate the terms to offer to the club/player based on what you believe is fair and what you know works for the Albion. When they are rejected, do you:

a) Up your offer, possibly several times, until such time as it is accepted, or
b) State your offer remains on the table and say "give me a call if you change your mind"

One Teddy Maybank · Jul 27, 2014

Bozza said:
So, using the Ward case as an example, what do you suggest is the best approach? You carefully calculate the terms to offer to the club/player based on what you believe is fair and what you know works for the Albion. When they are rejected, do you:

a) Up your offer, possibly several times, until such time as it is accepted, or
b) State your offer remains on the table and say "give me a call if you change your mind"

What about going in a 'bit harder', and say final offer, give the agent a deadline, else forget it and start actively pursuing other options (the latter hopefully we're probably doing anyway).

Whilst the debate around Burke and identification of targets is one thing and as interviews have highlighted it is not just him involved.
[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] how confident are you that having identified the targets that he is a successful negotiator?

Justice · Jul 27, 2014

El Presidente said:
Eh?

TB has spent £150m on the stadium and training facilities, AND another £50m subsidising the operational losses for the last few years, which includes wages and other player costs.

You are about as way 'of' the mark as Jonnie Obika's overhead kick.

Stadium and training facilities are investments operational costs protect the investments. Going large just to sign a player that may or may not work out is another thing, for example CMS so far hasn't been that good value, Ulloa on the other hand has covered that loss. So on the player front it is pretty much at a break even situation financially.

chaileyjem · Jul 27, 2014

Iggle Piggle said:
Oscar appears to have turned down quality signings but then rubber stamped David Rodriguez.

According to the TB interview post Oscar leaving then Rodriguez wasn't so much rubber stamped but was one of the few players that Oscar identified to the Recruitment Team who duly secured him.

Geriatric Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

Bozza said:
So, using the Ward case as an example, what do you suggest is the best approach? You carefully calculate the terms to offer to the club/player based on what you believe is fair and what you know works for the Albion. When they are rejected, do you:

a) Up your offer, possibly several times, until such time as it is accepted, or
b) State your offer remains on the table and say "give me a call if you change your mind"

What you say makes sense but I do sense a genuine concern that the season could be well underway before we begin to have a settled team which, even if not play-off contenders, will at least be competitive. There are now less than two weeks (and one friendly) before the season starts. Clearly, Leicester took approach (a) over Ulloa, and it worked. They got their man! Will we?

chaileyjem · Jul 27, 2014

Geriatric Seagull said:
Clearly, Leicester took approach (a) over Ulloa, and it worked. They got their man! Will we?

Perhaps knowing that they will receive a minimum of c£62m (+ other increased revenues) next year as part of Premier League TV deals helped here a bit.

LamieRobertson · Jul 27, 2014

Bozza said:
So, using the Ward case as an example, what do you suggest is the best approach? You carefully calculate the terms to offer to the club/player based on what you believe is fair and what you know works for the Albion. When they are rejected, do you:

a) Up your offer, possibly several times, until such time as it is accepted, or
b) State your offer remains on the table and say "give me a call if you change your mind"

do you not leave yourself some room for manoeuvre as one would do when for example bidding for a house?

b.w.2. · Jul 27, 2014

Grombleton said:
See, it's easy to make things work for you - his job is to identify players to bring and and once the manager is happy with them, then he can continue negotiations. If he has gather a good list of players and the Head Coach has turned them down then he has still done his job - it is Oscar who in January did not do his job in helping identify players. It's not that hard to grasp.

So that basically says that whatever Burke does, you're going to criticise him for it? Well thankfully you have **** all say in how the club is run, or it'd be run into the ground within a month. Get your head out of your arse, understand a reasoned argument and stop being such a miserable ****.

And isn't it oh so convenient to blame Oscar now he's left. As has already been pointed out Bozza's claim that DB did his job but Oscar turned down good players just doesn't add up.

I'll ignore your childish and swear word infested rant since it makes zero sense.

Barnham Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

Bozza said:
So, using the Ward case as an example, what do you suggest is the best approach? You carefully calculate the terms to offer to the club/player based on what you believe is fair and what you know works for the Albion. When they are rejected, do you:

a) Up your offer, possibly several times, until such time as it is accepted, or
b) State your offer remains on the table and say "give me a call if you change your mind"

Why would anyone take around a £2k a week wage drop unless they really have to? If we are always going to try and be a bit to cute and clever we will never sign the best players for us.

We seem happy to splash the cash on expensive architects and fittings bit unwilling to offer a few extra percent on wages.

You end up with the dead wood and lose the players with potential and ability.

Finchley Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

Barnham Seagull said:
Why would anyone take around a £2k a week wage drop unless they really have to? If we are always going to try and be a bit to cute and clever we will never sign the best players for us.

We seem happy to splash the cash on expensive architects and fittings bit unwilling to offer a few extra percent on wages.

You end up with the dead wood and lose the players with potential and ability.

Completely different point as structural stuff doesn't come under FFP. The simple fact is few of us know what goes on behind the scenes. I would think that Bozza knows more than most so his comments on here should be listened to. The right signings is more important than timing in my opinion.

b.w.2. · Jul 27, 2014

Barnham Seagull said:
Why would anyone take around a £2k a week wage drop unless they really have to? If we are always going to try and be a bit to cute and clever we will never sign the best players for us.

We seem happy to splash the cash on expensive architects and fittings bit unwilling to offer a few extra percent on wages.

You end up with the dead wood and lose the players with potential and ability.

I agree. Time to set a deadline (should have done so weeks ago) and if Ward not taking our top offer then move on to next target.

You won't be surprised to hear I have little faith in DB's ability to get deals done.

Bozza · Jul 27, 2014

Barnham Seagull said:
Why would anyone take around a £2k a week wage drop unless they really have to? If we are always going to try and be a bit to cute and clever we will never sign the best players for us.

We seem happy to splash the cash on expensive architects and fittings bit unwilling to offer a few extra percent on wages.

You end up with the dead wood and lose the players with potential and ability.

With Ward the issue is with Wolves and not the player himself, I understand. No one else is trying to get him (that may change, of course) so what will Wolves do?

Barnham Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

The running cost of all these facilities do come out of the budget subject to FFP going forward. The investment in squad to facilities seems totally unbalanced.

Being mickey mouse over a few k on wages will cost more in the long run to find replacements - Barnes, Murray, Kush, Cook, Elphick etc etc

chaileyjem · Jul 27, 2014

b.w.2. said:
You won't be surprised to hear I have little faith in DB's ability to get deals done.

This is what Tony Bloom said about the Lewis Grabban deal...

“We were very interested in him, he was a target of ours.We agreed a deal with Bournemouth, in initial discussions with the agent we thought we had a ball park figure for personal terms, [Grabban] had a good meeting with Oscar and then because there was a game coming up we wanted him to have a medical so he could potentially play on the weekend games.
Unfortunately what happened was that Bournemouth offered him a huge amount more money and naturally the agent wanted a lot more money from Brighton and we were prepared to go a little bit higher but not to the extent to which Bournemouth were offering because it was above what we valued the player. These things happen. We’re not going to pay over the odds. So he went back to Bournemouth. Ideally this wouldn’t have been in the public eye…I don’t like to do transfer business in the public eye.”

via http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27412432

So who do you think was responsible for the Grabban deal not happening ?

Barnham Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

Bozza said:
With Ward the issue is with Wolves and not the player himself, I understand. No one else is trying to get him (that may change, of course) so what will Wolves do?

So Wolves value him at ex and we are trying to get him on the cheap because we know they want rid of him basically.

This will only be good business if we get him, however sometime you have to pay a little bit more to get the squad right pre season and giver the manager the support he needs.

How much would a similar quality left back cost us? An International with Prem experience.

Barnham Seagull · Jul 27, 2014

chaileyjem said:
This is what Tony Bloom said about the Lewis Grabban deal...

via http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27412432

So who do you think was responsible for the Grabban deal not happening ?

The current value of the Player is £3m we could have signed him for a £1m.

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