Russell Brand.........

Buzzer · Dec 22, 2014

Mustafa said:
How has a Russell Brand thread turned into 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Because Russell Brand is also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. He's spoken on TV about it and he's also written about it in the book Revolution that this thread is all about, therefore it's pretty much on topic and brings further into question the judgement and all round thought processes of a man who believes all that nonsense.

You don't want to discuss fruit loop conspiracy theories? Then don't make the idiots who believe in them your cultural heroes.

spring hall convert · Dec 22, 2014

Triggaaar said:
Fine, if we get to the point where we don't need doctors, great. But we need them now, so we still need the system that rewards those that work hard.

There's a lot of gold for doctors. And there's also great profits for those who can come up with new, useful technology.

Given how I despise celebrity, I've got no problem with that. But it's up to humans who they idolise, it's not for you and me to establish mind control.

I've just read the rest of the thread, and see that you refer to "sales, retail, real estate, advertising, banking" as meaningless. I don't see why - I want to be able to buy some things from shops, so I need retailers and retail staff - I want to use estate agents for when I'm buying / selling my house (I know everyone says they hate e.agents, well they can go shopping for a house without one then) - if I develop a great new product, I'll need a salesman to sell it, and I may even need someone to advertise it - and I definitely need bankers to organise the money that the world needs (the world does need a mechanism for exchanging goods and services).

It's so easy to pretend that we can all live together peacefully, sharing everything, but it's just not achievable.

Isn't advertising the antithesis of a capitalist society though? The ideal of capitalism that the best products/ services thrive by virtue of being the best value and weed out the weaker. Doesn't advertising skew that and mean that in reality it's the richest companies products that thrive regardless of the value of their offering?

spring hall convert · Dec 22, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
But you are just highlighting financial value.

Which is the battle that has been lost. Everything is now measured in financial value. People that see the world in this way are entrenched in this position. It's become second nature to the point where they can't even imagine a place where this isn't the case - it's not even up for debate in their eyes. There is more to a human being's contribution to the society at large than the amount of $$$$$$$$$$ in their bank account.

I would have thought the near collapse of the entire global financial system might have opened people's eyes to the folly of this. But no, we just plod on.

Nibble · Dec 22, 2014

Conspiracy theorists. As predictable as they are ridiculous.

Hastings gull · Dec 22, 2014

spring hall convert said:
Which is the battle that has been lost. Everything is now measured in financial value. People that see the world in this way are entrenched in this position. It's become second nature to the point where they can't even imagine a place where this isn't the case - it's not even up for debate in their eyes. There is more to a human being's contribution to the society at large than the amount of $$$$$$$$$$ in their bank account.

I would have thought the near collapse of the entire global financial system might have opened people's eyes to the folly of this. But no, we just plod on.

Is it really that simple -people just measure everything in terms of financial value. Millions of folk contribute to the well-being of society, by caring for neighbours, relatives, animals etc for example. Yes, there is greed, but even greedy people can make other contributions to society. Do you not think that what you wrote is just that shade generalised and exaggerated?

Triggaaar · Dec 22, 2014

brighton fella said:
that's because the vast majority of people are like sheep

No, it's because it's the most sensible explanation.

.. roll over don't ask any questions and let the government screw you over. great attitude

do you believe in everything government tells you ? does it not pay to be sceptical of government behaviour then ?

Just because people believe something is true, doesn't mean they never questioned it. It's clear that people in this thread looked into the 9/11 conspiracy theories more than you did, and after doing so, came to the conclusion that they were all BS.

So does this mean that you're a sheep that believes the the US landed on the moon all those years ago, or is that another conspiracy theory you believe?

also if you think Im going to give you a list of credible videos to look over when you cant be bothered to look them up for yourself then you are very much mistaken.

As I said, I've seen them before, and they're BS. I didn't ask you to post videos, you said you discovered it was an inside job and I asked you how. Reading your replies, you clearly haven't discovered anything, you've just been suckered into believing a load of shit, like someone saying 'pull it' was proof that the buildings were blown up with explosives.

as previously said there are far to many questions about 9/11 left unanswered

You said you discovered it was an inside job - that's completely different to having some unanswered questions.

victims of 9/11 have been asking for a public inquiry since the disaster very first happened

Have they really? How many victims (or even their relatives, which would be more likely) have asked for a public enquiry, and what have they wanted it for?

and all they get told from government is to shut their mouths

More BS.

one final thing by the tone of your voice it sounds as if no credible bit of evidence will be credible enough for you

That's a strange thing to post, given that you haven't offered me any evidence at all. You're not the first fool to come on here pretending to know something the rest of us don't, and you've got as much credible evidence as the last ones.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 22, 2014

spring hall convert said:
Which is the battle that has been lost. Everything is now measured in financial value. People that see the world in this way are entrenched in this position. It's become second nature to the point where they can't even imagine a place where this isn't the case - it's not even up for debate in their eyes. There is more to a human being's contribution to the society at large than the amount of $$$$$$$$$$ in their bank account.

I would have thought the near collapse of the entire global financial system might have opened people's eyes to the folly of this. But no, we just plod on.

True. One of my biggest disappointments is the commodification of higher education. The government values higher education purely in £s, sadly so do many students and also the public in general.

spring hall convert · Dec 22, 2014

Hastings gull said:
Is it really that simple -people just measure everything in terms of financial value. Millions of folk contribute to the well-being of society, by caring for neighbours, relatives, animals etc for example. Yes, there is greed, but even greedy people can make other contributions to society. Do you not think that what you wrote is just that shade generalised and exaggerated?

Nope. I don't think this is an exaggeration at all. I think us as consumers in a capitalist society are taught to see everything through a haze of dollar signs.

Look at the way art has been monetised. Or the way education can only be seen in the frame of reference of ability to help someone to work, what happened to education for its own sake? Healthcare is now going down this line. Energy policy......

We've reached a point where making money = good. Not making money = bad.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 22, 2014

Hastings gull said:
Is it really that simple -people just measure everything in terms of financial value. Millions of folk contribute to the well-being of society, by caring for neighbours, relatives, animals etc for example. Yes, there is greed, but even greedy people can make other contributions to society. Do you not think that what you wrote is just that shade generalised and exaggerated?

But what about positive cultural value? To me this is highly important, highly pervasive and of great importance. I understand where you're coming from with neighbourly help but I struggle to understand how a greedy person (as you suggest) can contribute positively to the cultural riches of society. If anything it's the opposite.

I appreciate that the economy is highly important, but with most things a balance is needed.

London Irish · Dec 22, 2014

Mustafa said:
How has a Russell Brand thread turned into 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Because they can't discuss his actual ideas, as people support those. So making up stuff about him has to be the way to go

beorhthelm · Dec 22, 2014

spring hall convert said:
Look at the way art has been monetised. Or the way education can only be seen in the frame of reference of ability to help someone to work, what happened to education for its own sake? Healthcare is now going down this line. Energy policy......

when was art ever not about money, the history of art is always about artists struggling for commissions until they become popular and then their work being seen as status symbols by the patrons of the day. education has only ever been for the sake of it for a handful of exception people and the upper classes looking for something to do with their time, for everyone else its been a means to an end - better prospects. likewise healthcare has always been expensive, its a labour intensive process.

i take you point that everything is reduced down to £, but its for good reason. its normalisation, its a method to compare one thing with another, its often crude but there's not much other way to baseline things as diverse as a painting, a qualification in science or a programme of palliative care. peoples time cost money, their training costs money, because all the things they need cost money.

Albion Dan · Dec 22, 2014

Has anybody posted Russell Brands reply to the letter in this thread? I cant be bothered to go through all the drivel to find out.

daveinprague · Dec 22, 2014

Love the fact that a comedian, and blogger pisses off so many rightwingers. Some of the posts on this and the other thread have been hilarious.

brighton fella · Dec 22, 2014

Triggaaar said:
No, it's because it's the most sensible explanation.
Just because people believe something is true, doesn't mean they never questioned it. It's clear that people in this thread looked into the 9/11 conspiracy theories more than you did, and after doing so, came to the conclusion that they were all BS.

So does this mean that you're a sheep that believes the the US landed on the moon all those years ago, or is that another conspiracy theory you believe?

As I said, I've seen them before, and they're BS. I didn't ask you to post videos, you said you discovered it was an inside job and I asked you how. Reading your replies, you clearly haven't discovered anything, you've just been suckered into believing a load of shit, like someone saying 'pull it' was proof that the buildings were blown up with explosives.

You said you discovered it was an inside job - that's completely different to having some unanswered questions.

Have they really? How many victims (or even their relatives, which would be more likely) have asked for a public enquiry, and what have they wanted it for?

More BS.

That's a strange thing to post, given that you haven't offered me any evidence at all. You're not the first fool to come on here pretending to know something the rest of us don't, and you've got as much credible evidence as the last ones.

explain witnesses accounts of seeing and hearing explosions inside the trade centre lobby minutes before the tower collapsed, the NYFD even filmed it ?
explain how no trace of any markings were left embedded in the grass surface leading up to the pentagon crash area ? and how a boeing 757 could fit through a whole the size of a missile. there are more cctv cameras on this building than any other building on the planet yet the government wont release any videos showing the boeing 757 hitting the pentagon on 9/11 why ?
victims/relatives of 9/11 have never been given a hearing, they've been asking for a public enquiry because they've never been given one, most of them do not believe the governments version of the story either. their grievances are heard on video.

quite right I shouldn't have openly said it was an inside job as at this moment of time it can only be speculation rather than fact ..suppose in the same way as you shouldn't automatically assume the governments story to be correct.

beorhthelm · Dec 22, 2014

brighton fella said:
explain witnesses accounts of seeing and hearing explosions inside the trade centre lobby minutes before the tower collapsed, the NYFD even filmed it ?

"explosion" sounds can come from a number of sources, say a gas canisters, or similar sounds like items falling or collapsing. the recording by NYPD (that i recall) is a single sound. witness reports amount to no more than a handful of "explosions", CT requires hundreds of synchronised explosions over a period of time, no one has ever reported this. and there was an inquiry, left many questions and holes to be sure, but fact is there was one, its just some people dont want to accept the conclusion.

Nibble · Dec 22, 2014

brighton fella said:
explain witnesses accounts of seeing and hearing explosions inside the trade centre lobby minutes before the tower collapsed, the NYFD even filmed it ?
explain how no trace of any markings were left embedded in the grass surface leading up to the pentagon crash area ? and how a boeing 757 could fit through a whole the size of a missile. there are more cctv cameras on this building than any other building on the planet yet the government wont release any videos showing the boeing 757 hitting the pentagon on 9/11 why ?
victims/relatives of 9/11 have never been given a hearing, they've been asking for a public enquiry because they've never been given one, most of them do not believe the governments version of the story either. their grievances are heard on video.

quite right I shouldn't have openly said it was an inside job as at this moment of time it can only be speculation rather than fact ..suppose in the same way as you shouldn't automatically assume the governments story to be correct.

The Truth went down this path. Within a year he was babbling about Jews and banned for racism.

Don't assume that just because someone doesn't agree with your particular theories that they are sheep who believe anything. There are many types of sheep who'll believe anything, conspiracy theorists for example.

Heads up though, you aren't the first gumbleduke to come on here and spout off all these exact theories and bizarre youtube ramblings. They all end up getting banned for racism.

London Irish · Dec 22, 2014

Albion Dan said:
Has anybody posted Russell Brands reply to the letter in this thread? I cant be bothered to go through all the drivel to find out.

Reasonably early on #84 - but yeh the rest of the thread is for the purists :drink:

Buzzer · Dec 22, 2014

London Irish said:
Because they can't discuss his actual ideas, as people support those. So making up stuff about him has to be the way to go

I thought you said you'd read the book:

page 44 of my kindle:

I asked Assange if he believed in conspiracies, or, more pertinently, “The Conspiracy,” which posits that global politics is governed by a shady cabal who meet in a smoky, dim-lit room and cacklingly manipulate our destiny. He doesn’t, which is remarkable given that he was answering me from internment in a pretend bit of Ecuador as the result of Swedish sexual-assault charges that arose after he exposed war crimes in a Middle-Eastern conflict. He said that he saw the status quo more as a marauding Mongol horde of capitalists with shared interests charging ferociously in the same direction. The direction of “make as much money as possible” with no other considerations.

I disagree with Julian, but the point is moot:

page 192 of my kindle:

I’m not saying 9/11 was an inside job. The mysterious, ignored “third tower, building 7,” the signs of “controlled demolition,” the nationality of all the terrorists, are all cause for question. What is irrefutable is that America has a long history of carrying out invasions to impose the will of its corporate clientele, there is documentation of a plan to invade Iraq prior to 9/11, and the reasons they said they were invading Iraq have all since been proved to be untrue.

That last line is classic doublespeak. Not an inside job but thinks the idea of controlled explosions et al is credible. It's up there with "with all due respect", "I'm not racist but..."

brighton fella · Dec 22, 2014

Nibble said:
The Truth went down this path. Within a year he was babbling about Jews and banned for racism.

Don't assume that just because someone doesn't agree with your particular theories that they are sheep who believe anything. There are many types of sheep who'll believe anything, conspiracy theorists for example.

Heads up though, you aren't the first gumbleduke to come on here and spout off all these exact theories and bizarre youtube ramblings. They all end up getting banned for racism.

an obsession with the word racism... the only word in a lefties vocabulary.
your as bad as dave if not worse.

London Irish · Dec 22, 2014

Buzzer said:
I thought you said you'd read the book:

page 44 of my kindle:

page 192 of my kindle:

That last line is classic doublespeak. Not an inside job but thinks the idea of controlled explosions et al is credible. It's up there with "with all due respect", "I'm not racist but..."

Yawn. Carry on reaching if it cheers you up a bit

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