Russell Brand.........

[Hastings gull]

Sales, retail, real estate, advertising, banking and a lot of the service sector, etc.

These jobs offer nothing to society or humanity, they only really exist to make the rich richer and maintain this pointless capitalist system.

Come on, you have to be a university professor, or some such like, living in an ivory tower, and a very high one at that, to have such a blinkered view of everything. I am sure those reading this who provide a valuable contribution in the service sector would be most offended to read this exaggerate drivel.

 

[symyjym]

He loves to get in peoples faces and aggressively bully them with his opinions rather than actually answer for his own actions

Yep exactly this. There is no two way discussion, he is always on the defensive, answers questions with questions and veers off track as it suits him, whilst using the same old predictable sarcastic wit at all times.

There is nothing more irritating than someone trying to be funny in every breath because if you take that jokey mask away from them there is nothing left, so it is no surprise that Katy Perry divorced him so quickly.

 

[Hastings gull]

Apologies about this one. A few beers inspired me to encourage people to see the bigger picture, but in retrospect that was a little bit "far out".

Remember every person, every country, is slave to debt because of this capitalist monetary system that we have inherited. It only benefits a few and that is how we have found ourselves in this mess, which is bizarre considering money isn't actually real. Consider the sacrifices we are making to "reduce the deficit" - yet observe how the richest people alive are profiteering unimaginably from it. It's a rigged game.

Thanks for the apology, by the way. we all have a few too many at times. But you still have not answered the question, and yet again indulge in more ramblings about money. If you wish to replace what you consider to be a rotten system, then you must have a workable alternative up your sleeve, and it is quite clear that you do not, other than vague catch-phrases.

 

[Hastings gull]

In 2013, the richest 1,000 people in Britain increased their personal wealth by more than £69bn. This number is expected to increase by 15% in 2014. Many of these people aren't hard working CEO's or bankers, but instead the wealthy ruling oligarchs that corrupt our politics and propagandise our media to maintain this system that allows them to be unjustifiably and unimaginably wealthy at the expense of the rest of humanity.

That said, CEO's and bankers are quite often far from innocent, when they will claim excessive salaries and bonuses, while those who work for them, those at the bottom, are often earning less than a living wage.

This system, beyond the reach of normal people, only truly rewards the greedy - not the hard working.

That may well be true, but the increase may just be down to interest on savings? I am not saying that this is fair, just that the figure alone may not tell the whole story. But you still have avoided the point - the majority of folk will have become wealthy, or perhaps just "comfortably off" due to their own diligence. You always refer to bankers and oligarchs etc etc and I am sure that no one denies that they have too much perhaps ill-gotten wealth, but this is only a tiny minority, though a convenient one for you.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's the point though - we have reached a point in history where we don't need everyone to work hard anymore, technology is doing all the hard work for us and the wealth exists to sustain it.

I totally disagree, for many reasons. We'll always need doctors, and you don't learn the skills required to be a doctor by working the same as everyone else, you have to work harder, and people won't do that unless they're going to be paid more. And we still need to beat diseases, and to develop technology to one day replace fossil fuels, etc etc. We need the technological advances that come from a free market (where people are working for a profit), like the small batteries mobile phones help push.

So I don't think we've reached a point where we don't need people to work hard or take risks, but even if we had, humans would rather fight with their neighbours to get more than to live with their fair share. Even when we have food aid for Africa, we can't deliver it to all the people, because there are those that would kill to control it.

So much of our workforce is stuck in meaningless jobs, which do little other than make the rich richer and maintain this broken system

Who says it's broken, you? I think it's better than anything we've ever had before.

 

[Soulman]

Yep exactly this. There is no two way discussion, he is always on the defensive, answers questions with questions and veers off track as it suits him, whilst using the same old predictable sarcastic wit at all times.

There is nothing more irritating than someone trying to be funny in every breath because if you take that jokey mask away from them there is nothing left, so it is no surprise that Katy Perry divorced him so quickly.

Yep, a lucky bloke who's mucky sense of humour seemed to appeal to the easily amused.

 

[dazzer6666]

Even doctors will one day be replaced by technology. For example a computer who has access to all medical knowledge would be able to diagnose ailments far better than a GP - or surgery being carried out by precision robotics, will one day be preferable to a surgeon.

Of course we are not yet at that point (but not far off) so we currently need doctors and other scientific graduates more than ever. How can we encourage people to study these vital subjects if there is no gold at the end of the rainbow? We need to change our culture. Like during the cold war and the space race, the interest in the sciences increased tenfold - it was suddenly "cool" to be a scientist, so it's what kids wanted to do. If we can change our culture from being one that worships idiotic celebrities and mindless consumerism, into one that idolises knowledge, human achievement and academia - then we will have no problem producing the brains that are required to engineer and invent for our world.

The doctors role will change as a result of technology, but they won't be replaced. The technology also needs mking, programming, maintaining and updating. I hope very well qualified medics will be doing that. Development of new skills, sure but doctors will never be totally replaced.

 

[Triggaaar]

Even doctors will one day be replaced by technology.

Fine, if we get to the point where we don't need doctors, great. But we need them now, so we still need the system that rewards those that work hard.

so we currently need doctors and other scientific graduates more than ever. How can we encourage people to study these vital subjects if there is no gold at the end of the rainbow?

There's a lot of gold for doctors. And there's also great profits for those who can come up with new, useful technology.

If we can change our culture from being one that worships idiotic celebrities and mindless consumerism, into one that idolises knowledge, human achievement and academia - then we will have no problem producing the brains that are required to engineer and invent for our world.

Given how I despise celebrity, I've got no problem with that. But it's up to humans who they idolise, it's not for you and me to establish mind control.

I've just read the rest of the thread, and see that you refer to "sales, retail, real estate, advertising, banking" as meaningless. I don't see why - I want to be able to buy some things from shops, so I need retailers and retail staff - I want to use estate agents for when I'm buying / selling my house (I know everyone says they hate e.agents, well they can go shopping for a house without one then) - if I develop a great new product, I'll need a salesman to sell it, and I may even need someone to advertise it - and I definitely need bankers to organise the money that the world needs (the world does need a mechanism for exchanging goods and services).

It's so easy to pretend that we can all live together peacefully, sharing everything, but it's just not achievable.

 

[symyjym]

One person will never come up with the answer. Particularly some random bloke on a football message board. But it's something that we need to discuss - economists, political theorists, sociologists and everyone else - particularly regular people.

It's clear that the system isn't working for any of us. The few thousand people at the top getting unimaginably richer every year, while the rest of us always seem to lose out - whether it is our wages, our savings, our public services or our quality of life. It is obvious, blatantly obvious, that the system isn't working for us - so it's important that we start having serious discussion about what the alternatives are.

I have my ideas - like Russell Brand has his - but no single person has all of the answers. We can only encourage people to debate, remind people that it doesn't have to be this way and things could and should be so much better for all of us. Collectively we have the solutions, but first we need to make sure that we are all aware of the problems.

There is no revelation though. It's just that Brand is the wrong person to look up to. If he has only just woken up to this at his age, everything that he is now saying is too little too late.

He is no revolutionary like Mandela, Gandhi, King, even Lennon or Che Guevara, who he plagiarised for his promotion poster. All this Brand ar5e tickling as if he is some sort of modern hero is daft. He brings nothing new to the table and it is all second hand Brand.

Give me someone like Geldof any day

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fine, if we get to the point where we don't need doctors, great. But we need them now, so we still need the system that rewards those that work hard.

There's a lot of gold for doctors. And there's also great profits for those who can come up with new, useful technology.

Given how I despise celebrity, I've got no problem with that. But it's up to humans who they idolise, it's not for you and me to establish mind control.

I've just read the rest of the thread, and see that you refer to "sales, retail, real estate, advertising, banking" as meaningless. I don't see why - I want to be able to buy some things from shops, so I need retailers and retail staff - I want to use estate agents for when I'm buying / selling my house (I know everyone says they hate e.agents, well they can go shopping for a house without one then) - if I develop a great new product, I'll need a salesman to sell it, and I may even need someone to advertise it - and I definitely need bankers to organise the money that the world needs (the world does need a mechanism for exchanging goods and services).

It's so easy to pretend that we can all live together peacefully, sharing everything, but it's just not achievable.

I think Mustufa's point was the jobs he mentioned offer little to society. I tend to agree. At times I'm not sure what my job offers society.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There is no revelation though. It's just that Brand is the wrong person to look up to. If he has only just woken up to this at his age, everything that he is now saying is too little too late.

He is no revolutionary like Mandela, Gandhi, King, even Lennon or Che Guevara, who he plagiarised for his promotion poster. All this Brand ar5e tickling as if he is some sort of modern hero is daft. He brings nothing new to the table and it is all second hand Brand.

Give me someone like Geldof any day

Come on, I don't think he's even remotely seriously suggesting he is. He's a campaigner, a famous campaigner, but this is all.

 

[Soulman]

If my children were younger would i want Brand as their role model........Nope.

 

[symyjym]

Come on, I don't think he's even remotely seriously suggesting he is. He's a campaigner, a famous campaigner, but this is all.

Of course, not even remotely

 

[The Spanish]

Come on, I don't think he's even remotely seriously suggesting he is. He's a campaigner, a famous campaigner, but this is all.

All those quoted had serious flaws too, to say the least.

 

[The Spanish]

Of course, not even remotely

View attachment 61048

That's beyond sinister irrespective of the contrived irony it hides behind. Speak to dispossessed Cubans in Miami and see what they think of that.

che as a poster boy for clueless westerners is very depressing, and shows our levels of idiocy and lack of empathy for people who suffer when aggressive bullies who think they know how everyone should live, decide to flex their muscles..

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course, not even remotely

View attachment 61048

No. He's a campaigner. A daft picture plagiarising a famous image does not immediately make you a revolutionary.

 

[Hastings gull]

I think Mustufa's point was the jobs he mentioned offer little to society. I tend to agree. At times I'm not sure what my job offers society.

I don't know what you do but the post was simply saying that eg estate agents offer a service, which many folk buying or selling use. The firms then charge and pay a certain percentage of their profit as tax. They employ people who then have can afford their own mortgage, and pay 20% of their salary as tax and a further 10% in national insurance. Very simplistic, I know, but multiply this by many hundreds of thousands, doing what Mustafa labels as meaningless jobs, or those which offer little to society, as he also says, and a rather different picture emerges; certainly not one of contributing little to society.

 

[Hastings gull]

That's beyond sinister irrespective of the contrived irony it hides behind. Speak to dispossessed Cubans in Miami and see what they think of that.

che as a poster boy for clueless westerners is very depressing, and shows our levels of idiocy and lack of empathy for people who suffer when aggressive bullies who think they know how everyone should live, decide to flex their muscles..

That is exactly what I thought, and it reminded me of the equally depressing spectacle of idealists in the west in the 70s and 80s lauding what was happening in communist countries in eastern Europe. What the poor sods who had to live under the nasty dictatorships must have thought, when they saw these misguided folk, goodness only knows. Most East Germans were able to receive West German television, as the regime gave up trying to block it, and so knew they were being lied to, yet saw some westerners seemingly in support of communism.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't know what you do but the post was simply saying that eg estate agents offer a service, which many folk buying or selling use. The firms then charge and pay a certain percentage of their profit as tax. They employ people who then have can afford their own mortgage, and pay 20% of their salary as tax and a further 10% in national insurance. Very simplistic, I know, but multiply this by many hundreds of thousands, doing what Mustafa labels as meaningless jobs, or those which offer little to society, as he also says, and a rather different picture emerges; certainly not one of contributing little to society.

But you are just highlighting financial value. Estate agency doesn't offer much else to society IMHO. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Mustafa, merely adding clarity to his post.

I'll also take this opportunity to apologise to you for referring to some jobs as "crappy jobs". I was trying to describe a certain small very dull unimaginative section of middle-class society, I stand by my dislike of this section of people (people not their jobs), but appreciate I made a pigs-ear of it. I appreciate I came across as a nob.

 

[symyjym]

No. He's a campaigner. A daft picture plagiarising a famous image does not immediately make you a revolutionary.

Oh come on, he doesn’t know what he represents. Look at all the symbols around his neck, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Goddess Religion and Mac Donalds.