[Politics] Brexit

Neville's Breakfast · Sep 30, 2016

studio150 said:
Please keep up the lower valued pound is good for exports.
You aren't allowed to mention Foreign takeovers of UK companies or imports being more expensive.
Everyone must smile and be happy because we are leaving the EU albeit without a plan.

I'm not sure why you would think you are not allowed to mention it. I know that reading this thread there is virtually no acknowledgement that there are good and bad consequences to both sides of the argument but people I meet in the real world seem to have a somewhat less jaundiced and biased approach to the subject.Quite clearly the consequences of Brexit include weaker sterling, cheaper exports and more expensive imports. The weaker pound will make U.K. assets more desirable for foreign investors in the absence of legislation to counteract this effect. By the way this has been going on for years with the U.K. being asset stripped in the name of free markets.

Pretty pink fairy · Sep 30, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
I don't think you understand.

1. No one is denying that almost anyone can sell almost anything to almost anyone. Mirage jets to India, Land Rovers to China. This is not the issue. The point is that being in a single market with no tariff barriers makes it more likely that you will do so. This is why even the most ardent Brexiteers would like us to retain free access to the huge European single market. The debate is not about whether it is a good thing but about whether the access is worth the non-economic price. Romanians in Boston and Poles in Peterborough (etc etc) make Brexiters think it's not.

2. Your point about Luxembourg is asinine with respect. I was not talking about selling things to Luxembourg. I was talking about the fact that no trade deal of this kind can be reached with the EU without the agreement of all members, including countries like Luxembourg who have no vested interest in accommodating the UK.

why don't you leave the country

regards
DR

beorhthelm · Sep 30, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Just to enlarge this, Nissan are specifically asking for future compensation if new tariff barriers are erected between the company and its largest market. The decision on whether to build the Qashqai in the UK, France or Spain is due to be made later this year. That's Nissan. Other Foreign Direct Investment companies in a similar situation (ie virtually the entire British motor industry) will adopt a similar approach. Toyota have said the imposition of duties would make running its British plant 'very tough'. Jaguar Land Rover say trade barriers would be disastrous. It's up to the government whether they head all this off. Headbangers like Fox don't want them to. Fair enough. It's still a free country.

compensation is the heart of the matter, they are brazenly looking for some sweetners. Nissan and Honda ship cars made from UK back to Japan, and long with Jaguar send most their UK exports outside the EU. they arent going to simply say "yep investment as normal" when there's potential for grants and rebates.

Lincoln Imp said:
Take one example. On June 22nd the Japanese were not intending to bid for ARM Technologies. Within weeks the fall in the Brexit-induced fall in the pound had made the company look so cheap that the jewel of British technology is now in far eastern hands.

dont be so utterly naive, they would have been working on such a massive deal for months, the only difference Brexit made was the price.

Lincoln Imp said:
1. No one is denying that almost anyone can sell almost anything to almost anyone.

and that is exactly what some are trying to give the impression of, no free market, no trade because we'll be priced out of the markets. reality is that tariffs only affect price and you may not have noticed but UK manufacturing long since passed on trading price sensitive, commodity products. people will still want Rolls Royce engines or Jaguar cars for a few % more.

Lincoln Imp · Sep 30, 2016

Pretty pink fairy said:
why don't you leave the country
regards
DR

Because then I wouldn't be able to see the Albion 30 plus times a year. I'm sure you understand that.

Lincoln Imp · Sep 30, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
Foreign exchange volatility can be caused by many factors, in this case it just so happens that sterling weakness has followed Brexit. Whatever the cause it is one of the responsibilities of Government to protect British industry from being picked off in the way you describe. At present this doesn't appear to be happening but then it didn't happen in the past either when sterling fell for other reasons. The problem here isn't Brexit it's rampant free market economics that allows foreign investors unfettered access to our market. It simply doesn't happen elsewhere in the world. There are restrictions on foreign buying of property and strategic industrial assets in many advanced nations. That should be the case in the U.K. as well. Note I have said restrictions, not a ban. The alternative is what we have here in the U.K. where wealthy foreigners buy assets and bid prices up out of reach of U.K. residents and businesses.

I agree with much of this although it is fair to say that the fall in the value of the pound (following Brexit) can only make the problem worse.

Lincoln Imp · Sep 30, 2016

beorhthelm said:
dont be so utterly naive, they would have been working on such a massive deal for months, the only difference Brexit made was the price.

and that is exactly what some are trying to give the impression of, no free market, no trade because we'll be priced out of the markets. reality is that tariffs only affect price and you may not have noticed but UK manufacturing long since passed on trading price sensitive, commodity products. people will still want Rolls Royce engines or Jaguar cars for a few % more.

SoftBank had been looking closely at ARM and others for a while but decided to move only when Brexit made it cheaper. According to SoftBank.

Regarding there being no price issues regarding British-made products (Nissans for example) I humbly suggest that you are being naive.

Hampster Gull · Sep 30, 2016

Pretty pink fairy said:
why don't you leave the country
regards
DR

Why dont you

nicko31 · Oct 1, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
As other have said, Jaguar Land Rover wasn't stolen by Tata, it was rescued by it. But leaving that example aside, the general issue of British companies falling into foreign hands is a poor one for a Brexit voter to raise.

Take one example. On June 22nd the Japanese were not intending to bid for ARM Technologies. Within weeks the fall in the Brexit-induced fall in the pound had made the company look so cheap that the jewel of British technology is now in far eastern hands.

And so it will go on and on. British companies will find it harder to buy foreign ones, foreign companies will find it easier to pick up British names at cut-price rates. Mclaren for Apple anyone? It is what city boys like Nigel want, and it's what you voted for. How 'we've got our country back' fits into the reality I just don't know.

Indeed the UK's share price has fallen by 15%, we are weaker and meaner for it

Pretty Plnk Fairy · Oct 1, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Just to enlarge this, Nissan are specifically asking for future compensation if new tariff barriers are erected between the company and its largest market. The decision on whether to build the Qashqai in the UK, France or Spain is due to be made later this year. That's Nissan. Other Foreign Direct Investment companies in a similar situation (ie virtually the entire British motor industry) will adopt a similar approach. Toyota have said the imposition of duties would make running its British plant 'very tough'. Jaguar Land Rover say trade barriers would be disastrous. It's up to the government whether they head all this off. Headbangers like Fox don't want them to. Fair enough. It's still a free country.

Simple solution, just buy a british car from a british manunfacturer instead of one just assembled here.

You Tobies just make things complicated.

Regards

DR

Hampster Gull · Oct 1, 2016

Pretty Plnk Fairy said:
Simple solution, just buy a british car from a british manunfacturer instead of one just assembled here.

You Tobies just make things complicated.

Regards

DR

Will be buying lots of second hand crap then

Lincoln Imp · Oct 1, 2016

Pretty Plnk Fairy said:
Simple solution, just buy a british car from a british manunfacturer instead of one just assembled here.

You Tobies just make things complicated.

Regards

DR

OK, you're the expert. I need a new car. Budget £18k. What car made by a British owned manufacturer do you recommend?

GoldWithFalmer · Oct 1, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
OK, you're the expert. I need a new car. Budget £18k. What car made by a British owned manufacturer do you recommend?

British cars tend to sell for a bit more than your budget sir......may i show you some cheaper EU imports

Lincoln Imp · Oct 1, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
British cars tend to sell for a bit more than your budget sir......may i show you some cheaper EU imports

Oh, I was hoping to be served by that chap in the gossamer frock but never mind. Perhaps you can help. I really would like something from a British company. Four doors please. Let's forget a price limit. What do you recommend?

Buzzer · Oct 1, 2016

This is apparently the IDS/Paterson action plan for Brexit.

Now I'm all for Brexit but can see this is just delusional. The equivalent of building a big wall and asking them to pay for it.

Neville's Breakfast · Oct 1, 2016

Buzzer said:
This is apparently the IDS/Paterson action plan for Brexit.

Now I'm all for Brexit but can see this is just delusional. The equivalent of building a big wall and asking them to pay for it.

Agreed, it's the equivalent of the argument of the diehard Remainers that the EU have all the power in the coming negotiations and we will take what we are given.

beorhthelm · Oct 1, 2016

Buzzer said:
Now I'm all for Brexit but can see this is just delusional.

source? on its own i wouldnt believe it as the language, particularly point 3, is not what you'd expect from some middle aged professionals.

Buzzer · Oct 1, 2016

beorhthelm said:
source? on its own i wouldnt believe it as the language, particularly point 3, is not what you'd expect from some middle aged professionals.

I found it here and the chap looks v.reliable. I've seen other journalists retweet too.

https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/782182339094966272

Buzzer · Oct 1, 2016

And this will probably be of interest to [MENTION=7004]Alex, Alex Dawson oo! oo![/MENTION]. Would be interested to hear his thoughts on this.

[tweet]782183900344946688[/tweet]

Two Professors · Oct 1, 2016

nicko31 said:
Indeed the UK's share price has fallen by 15%, we are weaker and meaner for it

Well I've looked but I can't see the UK's share price anywhere-are you on something

?

The Clamp · Oct 1, 2016

Buzzer said:
This is apparently the IDS/Paterson action plan for Brexit.

Now I'm all for Brexit but can see this is just delusional. The equivalent of building a big wall and asking them to pay for it.

From the reactions in the media to his list everyone else seems to see it as unrealistic too so I doubt there's much to be concerned over. I would imagine he's just trying to get the ball rolling.
As you know I'm a staunch remainer but as Brexit will happen I'd like to see some more of these action lists coming forward, albeit in a slightly more realistic form!

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