[Politics] Brexit

Lincoln Imp · Jan 14, 2020

GT49er said:
Actually you will find it is quite normal in British elections for the total votes cast for all the other parties put together outnumber the votes cast for the winning party - and it happens that way with or without Brexit. That's democracy, in a democratic system. It is democratic because the politicians asked the people if they want to change it............

.................. and we, the people, voted by a comfortable two thirds majority that we didn't want to change it. We voted to keep it the way it is. That was pretty overwhelming, eh? ...... and democracy working properly.

I am sorry but you have completely missed the point. I understand the mathematics of the British voting system as well as you seem to. My post was written simply to question a poster's apparent suggestion that more individuals voted for Brexit-backing parties than ones favouring either Remain or Ref2.

CHAPPERS · Jan 14, 2020

GT49er said:
My taxes have already been paying for it all my working life; Brexit wont change that; it's still a big bell, and it, and its tower, need maintenance, as always.

P.S. There are no unicorns. It is difficult to take some remainers seriously when they persist with such beliefs.

I can’t work out if you’re aware that Johnson was floating the idea of pausing the restoration work for a one off bell ringing session for 500 grand of public money, on top of the already existing restoraion costs.

GT49er · Jan 14, 2020

Lincoln Imp said:
Completely agree. It was a nonsense. Written only to draw attention to a similar non sequitur from the other side.

Except that the 'non sequiturs' from the other side came with a reason and logical explanation; people deciding that upholding democracy was the right thing to do, even if the outcome was not the oe the personally wanted. I respect all the people who made that decision.

Mr Bridger · Jan 14, 2020

CHAPPERS said:
I can’t work out if you’re aware that Johnson was floating the idea of pausing the restoration work for a one off bell ringing session for 500 grand of public money, on top of the already existing restoraion costs.

I’m sure he said he was looking for an alternative as it was too much money

clapham_gull · Jan 14, 2020

Westdene Seagull said:
Nice to see the REMAINER ex-speaker screwed the taxpayer over so much. Nasty piece of shit.

Have a look what Boris pissed into the Thames as London Mayor....

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

GT49er · Jan 14, 2020

Lincoln Imp said:
I am sorry but you have completely missed the point. I understand the mathematics of the British voting system as well as you seem to. My post was written simply to question a poster's apparent suggestion that more individuals voted for Brexit-backing parties than ones favouring either Remain or Ref2.

Yeh, fair enough on that point. I was concentrating more on the wider discussion. Examples were given of people who voted Tory against their personal inclination because they considered upholding the democratic result of the referendum was the more important issue. - so not all Tory voters were leavers.
Similarly, not all the votes for the pro-remain parties wold have come from remainers; many Labour leavers like me bit the bullet and voted Tory as the only way that we would actually leave, but I'm sure there are other Labour leavers who would have bitten the bullet in their own way and remained loyal to Labour, regardless of Labour's position on Brexit (whatever that was!)
Same with Plaid Cymru - they are pro-remain; Wales isn't! - but Plaid Cymru will have had other policies that may have been attractive enough to earn votes from Welsh leavers. And I'd lay odds that the SNP got a fair few votes that were nothing to do with Brexit either way, but anything to upset the English!
So, one way or another, not all votes for pro-remain parties would have necessarily been votes to stop/delay/sabotage Brexit - although I'd have to agree that many were.

nicko31 · Jan 14, 2020

clapham_gull said:
Have a look what Boris pissed into the Thames as London Mayor....

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

There's a load that never made it past NDA's....

GT49er · Jan 14, 2020

Mr Bridger said:
I’m sure he said he was looking for an alternative as it was too much money

I'm sure the BBC will have a decent recording, and it won't cost £500K to hire a bundle of amplifiers and some f***ing big speakers!

Lincoln Imp · Jan 14, 2020

GT49er said:
Yeh, fair enough on that point. I was concentrating more on the wider discussion. Examples were given of people who voted Tory against their personal inclination because they considered upholding the democratic result of the referendum was the more important issue. - so not all Tory voters were leavers.
Similarly, not all the votes for the pro-remain parties wold have come from remainers; many Labour leavers like me bit the bullet and voted Tory as the only way that we would actually leave, but I'm sure there are other Labour leavers who would have bitten the bullet in their own way and remained loyal to Labour, regardless of Labour's position on Brexit (whatever that was!)
Same with Plaid Cymru - they are pro-remain; Wales isn't! - but Plaid Cymru will have had other policies that may have been attractive enough to earn votes from Welsh leavers. And I'd lay odds that the SNP got a fair few votes that were nothing to do with Brexit either way, but anything to upset the English!
So, one way or another, not all votes for pro-remain parties would have necessarily been votes to stop/delay/sabotage Brexit - although I'd have to agree that many were.

I agree with what you say. It works both ways of course: I know three ladies, all elderly and two the daughters of an impossibly senior military officer, who are forthright Remainers. Two are members of the Conservative Party though, and all voted as they always have done.

PS I suspect we're both finding Spurs v Boro less than riveting...

GT49er · Jan 14, 2020

Lincoln Imp said:
I agree with what you say. It works both ways of course: I know three ladies, all elderly and two the daughters of an impossibly senior military officer, who are forthright Remainers. Two are members of the Conservative Party though, and all voted as they always have done.

PS I suspect we're both finding Spurs v Boro less than riveting...

Ain't that just the truth!

clapham_gull · Jan 15, 2020

nicko31 said:
There's a load that never made it past NDA's....

Well at least some of it is public:

Garden Bridge £52m - Never Built

New Routemaster £321.6m - Disaster, described as a "sauna on wheels". Project scrapped by next Mayor.

Emirates Air Line £24m - The money TFL had to stump up for losses.

Water cannon £323,000 - Deemed illegal and scrapped.

Hire bikes £225m - Meant to pay for themselves, that's the cumulative cost to the public by 2017 to make up for shortfall. Similar scheme in Paris makes the city millions.

Estuary airport £5.2m - On consultants alone, never built

Olympic stadium conversion £305.5m - Enough said.

Arcelor Mittal Orbit £6.1m - Boris feeling left out of the Olympic legacy and commissioned a fancy Helter Skelter - have you been on it ?

Boris Johnson - working hard to waste other people's money.

There was also other vanity projects that never took place but cost millions.

No wonder the House of Parliament don't want him wasting £500,000 on ringing the bells during restoration.

Baldseagull · Jan 15, 2020

I can't see why we don't just let the twats have the half million pounds to make the bell chime on the 31rd, it is the last chance for any celebration related to Brexit, other than when each leaver gets their new, wrong shade of blue, not as big as it used to be, UK passport. All in all, £500,000 is peanuts to what Brexit has cost us and will cost us.
Also, it would be nice if it gave 12 bongs, just to remind us that we are leaving midnight, Brussels Time, as that is the end of the day for the EU, and if it costs half a million to make it happen, buy 11, get one free might make the bill a bit more palatable.

Baldseagull · Jan 15, 2020

clapham_gull said:
Well at least some of it is public:

Garden Bridge £52m - Never Built
New Routemaster £321.6m - Disaster, described as a "sauna on wheels". Project scrapped by next Mayor.
Emirates Air Line £24m - Bailed out by TFL to make up for losses.
Water cannon £323,000 - Deemed illegal and scrapped.
Hire bikes £225m - Meant to pay for themselves, that's the cumulative cost to the public by 2017 to make up for shortfall.
Estuary airport £5.2m - On consultants alone, never built
Olympic stadium conversion £305.5m - Enough said.
Arcelor Mittal Orbit £6.1m - Boris feeling left out of the Olympic legacy and commissed a fancy Helter Skelter - have you been on it ?

Boris Johnson - working hard to waste other people's money.

The losses on Emirates Air Line could have been worse, he got 10 million Euros towards it from the European Regional Development fund.

Klaas · Jan 15, 2020

Pretty pink fairy said:
No I'm flying mine now , cast your mind back to that event and the amount of people on here dismissing it as a non event, oh deary me that really will hurt for those same people on the 31st of January 2020, as I've said too Watford bloke no hard feelings though .
Regards
DF

Oh, you should have popped along, could have flown the flag with some like minded neo-nazi types Das Reich

beorhthelm · Jan 15, 2020

clapham_gull said:
...Olympic stadium conversion £305.5m - Enough said.

not really enough. outright refusal to design a stadium for football use by the original committees and interest groups are wholey responsible for that one.

WATFORD zero · Jan 15, 2020

Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-eu-2020-1?r=US&IR=T

But at least we won :shootself

(And if you think that is a lot of money, you obviously have no concept of the figures involved in trade deals)

clapham_gull · Jan 15, 2020

beorhthelm said:
not really enough. outright refusal to design a stadium for football use by the original committees and interest groups are wholey responsible for that one.

Nope, the official independent report concluded that the "..former Mayor’s decision for the taxpayer - not West Ham - to foot the bill for the Stadium transformation made without proper analysis, leading to an 'expensive’ and 'onerous' deal".

...in our opinion, the decision to transform the Stadium and to contract with WHU was made on incorrect financial estimates and an insufficient appreciation of the critical commercial and financial risks. It is our opinion that the financial estimates were incorrect not because they were estimates, but because there were errors in their calculation, compilation and presentation.

There was a much better deal on the table originally, it was Boris who decided to keep the Stadium in public ownership.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jan 15, 2020

clapham_gull said:
Nope, the official independent report concluded that the "..former Mayor’s decision for the taxpayer - not West Ham - to foot the bill for the Stadium transformation made without proper analysis, leading to an 'expensive’ and 'onerous' deal".

There was a much better deal on the table originally, it was Boris who decided to keep the Stadium in public ownership.

Boris does seem to have the unhappy knack of rejecting a deal and then signing up to a worse one and showcasing it as a miracle.

nicko31 · Jan 15, 2020

WATFORD zero said:
Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-eu-2020-1?r=US&IR=T

But at least we won

(And if you think that is a lot of money, you obviously have no concept of the figures involved in trade deals)

UK was well positioned back in late 2015, early 2016, but we blew it. I'm continuing to steer well clear of UK investment until these clowns can demonstrate they have any sort of plan.

3.5 years and still nothing from Brexiters on here about new trade opportunities; what? where? how?

Mo Gosfield · Jan 15, 2020

Farewell.... EU.........Welcome....... SINGAPORE - ON - THAMES.

" Let freedom ring from the prodigious height of Big Ben "
" Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of Snowdonia "
" Let freedom ring from the snow capped Peak District "
" Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of the South Downs "
" Let freedom ring from Sca-Fell Pike and Lizard Point and every hill and mole-hill of this great country "
" Let freedom ring from every village, every hamlet, every town and every city "

" Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty we are free at last "

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