[Politics] Brexit

B-right-on · Dec 14, 2019

Yoda said:
SNP & LIB Dem's also backed a second referendum, so you could say 50.3% voted in favour of that (This does of course go up with Plaid added, I do not know what Sinn Fein's stance on this was but they did campaign against Brexit).

You could also say pigs fly, Norwich will win the league and Zaha isn't a cheating ****. None of those like your statement is correct. My neighbour voted for Brexit and voted for Labour. Just because someone voted for Labour, SNP etc. Does not necessarily mean that they are remainers.

Seasider78 · Dec 14, 2019

It would be great as an electorate if we stopped with this single topic politics and made sure this government is held to account over the state of our NHS, police, education and widespread poverty.

Westdene Seagull · Dec 14, 2019

Blue3 said:
11. Individuals who want to become an MP can only do so if they have held a previous paid work for ten years
12. Individuals who wish to stand for the second house can only do so if they have a minimum of twenty years paid work

Some of your suggestions I agree with but need to pick you up on these two. In the last 10 years I've been out of work for around two years of it due to three redundancies. Are you seriously suggesting I shouldn't be allowed to stand as an MP or for the second house ?

Also, these two suggestions are age discrimination via the backdoor - i.e. illegal.

Blue3 · Dec 14, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Some of your suggestions I agree with but need to pick you up on these two. In the last 10 years I've been out of work for around two years of it due to three redundancies. Are you seriously suggesting I shouldn't be allowed to stand as an MP or for the second house ?

Also, these two suggestions are age discrimination via the backdoor - i.e. illegal.

Fair enough then it needs rewording what I wanted is not to have career politicians who go from school to uneviersity and then politics having never worked in and amongst the people

portslade seagull · Dec 14, 2019

Can Boris now revisit a No Deal ?

Hugo Rune · Dec 14, 2019

portslade seagull said:
Can Boris now revisit a No Deal ?

Not if he wants to turn London blue and be PM for a couple of decades.

Hampster Gull · Dec 14, 2019

pastafarian said:
Sort of gets to the heart of the question that was being replied to (what went wrong?).
Get brexit done resonated with the public and has a clear majority over differing standpoints from those who were not offering to get brexit done.
The voters made their choice.

Ok, sure. We’ll never know though, e.g. I know some Tory voters who are remain but disliked Corbyn so much. Anyway, Boris has a mandate to leave and a big enough majority to enact and we will leave, game over.

WATFORD zero · Dec 14, 2019

portslade seagull said:
Can Boris now revisit a No Deal ?

I think you'll find that the 'no deal' rhetoric will begin about mid 2020, when it becomes blindingly obvious (even to those who don't understand it), that an EU trade deal can't be done in 11 months, never mind the other 40 trade deals we are also giving up.

That's when the first cycle of negotiating an extension to the implementation period and a further divorce bill will start. And, after all, we have to have 'no deal' on the table in order to get a 'good deal' don't we ?

Sound familiar :shootself

Still, there will be no excuses as now we have Johnson as PM and a huge majority so it will be really straightforward, to 'Get Brexit Done' won't it.

Two Professors · Dec 14, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
I think you'll find that the 'no deal' rhetoric will begin about mid 2020, when it becomes blindingly obvious (even to those who don't understand it), that an EU trade deal can't be done in 11 months, never mind the other 40 trade deals we are also giving up.

That's when the first cycle of negotiating an extension to the implementation period and a further divorce bill will start. And, after all, we have to have 'no deal' on the table in order to get a 'good deal' don't we ?

Sound familiar

Still, there will be no excuses as now we have Johnson as PM and a huge majority so it will be really straightforward, to 'Get Brexit Done' won't it.

Still spouting the same old crap.I bet you think Labour won.

WATFORD zero · Dec 14, 2019

Two Professors said:
Still spouting the same old crap.I bet you think Labour won.

Well now that you have won, when do you think we will stop paying the EU and abiding by their rules and regulations. Want to have a guess as to when you will find out what you have won ?

It should be easy now, shouldn't it ?

BensGrandad · Dec 14, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
That's when the first cycle of negotiating an extension to the implementation period and a further divorce bill will start. And, after all, we have to have 'no deal' on the table in order to get a 'good deal' don't we ?
.

I think that you may be taking the p..s but

That is not what Corbyn convinced parliament about hence we had the GE. But it is still true as Boris has to offer nothing to achieve what he wants with a take or leave it attitude.

WATFORD zero · Dec 14, 2019

BensGrandad said:
I think that you may be taking the p..s but

That is not what Corbyn convinced parliament about hence we had the GE. But it is still true as Boris has to offer nothing to achieve what he wants with a take or leave it attitude.

Trust me BG, I'm not taking the piss at all, I only wish I was. Maybe I won't have to bounce all these posts this time next year, but I think there are only two hopes of that, and Bob's long gone :wink:

It's not about Corbyn and never was, he is gone and was never going to get to implement those policies. Labour were (and never are) going to get a majority all the while the SNP are significant north of the border. What I and most remainers hoped for was a hung parliament.

It's not about Corbyn, it's about Brexit. And you're right Johnson doesn't have to offer anything, there's still 'no deal'

daveinplzen · Dec 14, 2019

B-right-on said:
Yes. That's why I voted for it.

Along with several million others. But you are too blinded by your own point of view and bias that you would not even hear what I have to say.

There are 100, 000 posts on this tread and still the name calling, insults and entrenched points of view goes on.

Nothing you can say to me would change my vote as it was 3.5 years ago and nor would it change my mind if it came to another vote. Its pretty obvious from your posts that this is reciprocal and no matter what I say, Leavers will never know what they want and expect in your head.

I suggest you try and understand that others have a different idea and point of view to yours. Insulting them does nothing to change anyone's opinion. You won't agree with their point of view, but you could understand that there is another way to look at the same thing.

Bit like being a Palarse supporter, I don't agree with it, I don't understand why someone would follow them, but I understand that others could.

Thats a lot of words to provide no answer to the question.

DavidinSouthampton · Dec 14, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
I think you'll find that the 'no deal' rhetoric will begin about mid 2020, when it becomes blindingly obvious (even to those who don't understand it), that an EU trade deal can't be done in 11 months, never mind the other 40 trade deals we are also giving up.

That's when the first cycle of negotiating an extension to the implementation period and a further divorce bill will start. And, after all, we have to have 'no deal' on the table in order to get a 'good deal' don't we ?

Sound familiar

Still, there will be no excuses as now we have Johnson as PM and a huge majority so it will be really straightforward, to 'Get Brexit Done' won't it.

Two Professors said:
Still spouting the same old crap.I bet you think Labour won.

It's not crap. It's a fairly straightforward statement of a perfectly valid opinion.

I was going to say "statement of fact", but one has to trust that Boris will actually get all the trade deal ducks in a line in his impossibly short target timescale.

Wardy's twin · Dec 14, 2019

B-right-on said:
Yes. That's why I voted for it.

Along with several million others. But you are too blinded by your own point of view and bias that you would not even hear what I have to say.

There are 100, 000 posts on this tread and still the name calling, insults and entrenched points of view goes on.

Nothing you can say to me would change my vote as it was 3.5 years ago and nor would it change my mind if it came to another vote. Its pretty obvious from your posts that this is reciprocal and no matter what I say, Leavers will never know what they want and expect in your head.

I suggest you try and understand that others have a different idea and point of view to yours. Insulting them does nothing to change anyone's opinion. You won't agree with their point of view, but you could understand that there is another way to look at the same thing.

Bit like being a Palarse supporter, I don't agree with it, I don't understand why someone would follow them, but I understand that others could.

If there is any chance of reconciliation then it does need to come down to identifying deliverables and making sure they are delivered so that us remainers can be convinced that things really have improved.

a palace fan would probably define those deliverables as

a) beat brighton at home
b) beat brighton away
c) finish higher than brighton
d) finish in top half of table

each objective is clearly stated and measured . They might also like to see 'more attractive football' but that is not easily measured other than a warm happy feeling but probably no good if keep losing.

B-right-on · Dec 14, 2019

daveinplzen said:
Thats a lot of words to provide no answer to the question.

OK. I'll bite:

1. We no longer are subject to all the laws and mandates of the EU Council, now and in the future (EU Army, the Euro etc..)

2. We have more autonomy over our own laws than we currently do.

3. We have the ability and right to set up trade deals with whoever we want.

4. We stop the 'open door' policy for non Brits coming in and allowing employers to use them on min wage that stops others from working on the same job but with a higher (livable) wage. Also stops them not working and living off state benefits.

That'll do as a short synopsis. So I do have a clue. Along with the millions of others.

And to stop the inevitable insults on the various points above, I love Europe (the continent). I lived in Copenhagen for 5 years a long time ago. My dad was not born in the UK but came in his 20s to find work, my wife was not born in the UK and is non white, our daughter is obviously not pure Anglo Saxon when you look at her. I could go on but I can't be arsed as I know you will never understand and listen to anything I say.

Cue insults and reasons why I'm wrong.. (which still won't change my mind)

B-right-on · Dec 14, 2019

Wardy's twin said:
If there is any chance of reconciliation then it does need to come down to identifying deliverables and making sure they are delivered so that us remainers can be convinced that things really have improved.

a palace fan would probably define those deliverables as

a) beat brighton at home
b) beat brighton away
c) finish higher than brighton
d) finish in top half of table

each objective is clearly stated and measured . They might also like to see 'more attractive football' but that is not easily measured other than a warm happy feeling but probably no good if keep losing.

Thank you for your measured and reasoned response and I whole heartedly agree with you. Its the same for Leavers I can tell you.

See my response to Dave and that gives you a short summary of why I voted and what I'd expect from Brexit.

However we are in the hands of Boris and other politicians. We could get screwed over or it could work out. No one really knows but I think that it is worth the gamble, personally.

As you say, TB took a gamble sacking probably our most popular and liked manager, ever. He's gone for a radical new style. It may or may not pay off, we'll see but it's looking good so far.

Lever · Dec 14, 2019

B-right-on said:
Thank you for your measured and reasoned response and I whole heartedly agree with you. Its the same for Leavers I can tell you.

See my response to Dave and that gives you a short summary of why I voted and what I'd expect from Brexit.

However we are in the hands of Boris and other politicians. We could get screwed over or it could work out. No one really knows but I think that it is worth the gamble, personally.

As you say, TB took a gamble sacking probably our most popular and liked manager, ever. He's gone for a radical new style. It may or may not pay off, we'll see but it's looking good so far.

....and therein lies the major issue..... and Johnson (I prefer to use his surname, as in spite of The Sun style familiarity, he is known to me only by his deeds and what is said about him)..... has a very poor record for trust, loyalty or integrity. We don't know what will happen but many of us are justifiably concerned about a congenital liar (even having moved the Brexit agenda from 'sunny uplands' to just 'getting it done') driving our bus.... and I would never have given such a person the keys.....

There is a world of difference between TB, lifelong Albion man and our great benefactor - and Johnston. I hope you were not serious when you wrote that.....

portslade seagull · Dec 14, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Well now that you have won, when do you think we will stop paying the EU and abiding by their rules and regulations. Want to have a guess as to when you will find out what you have won ?

It should be easy now, shouldn't it ?

Well it will be without the undemocratic snowflakes stopping it at every juncture. You must be gutted. Are you moving out ?

Granny on the wing · Dec 14, 2019

Lever said:
....and therein lies the major issue..... and Johnson (I prefer to use his surname, as in spite of The Sun style familiarity, he is known to me only by his deeds and what is said about him)..... has a very poor record for trust, loyalty or integrity. We don't know what will happen but many of us are justifiably concerned about a congenital liar (even having moved the Brexit agenda from 'sunny uplands' to just 'getting it done') driving our bus.... and I would never have given such a person the keys.....

There is a world of difference between TB, lifelong Albion man and our great benefactor - and Johnston. I hope you were not serious when you wrote that.....

The way the result went it must be that even though Boris is seen as telling lots of lies ,the alternative was the hard left policies and voters did not want that and were scared of the spending plans etc .If we are to say Boris is a populist he is always upbeat and positive which counts for a lot in winning votes IMO.

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