Southern Rail STRIKE details

Ernest · Jun 15, 2016

Hotchilidog said:
Let's get this straight. SASTA do not have enough staff to fulfill their published timetable, they and they alone are responsible for this. GTR cannot moan about inheriting poor staffing levels when Govia and Southern were the previous franchisees. All that aside, with overtime and rest day working the company can run a just about passable service. They are choosing not to do so, they and they alone are playing around with the passengers. The staff are powerless, I have seen in person train crew who have turned up to run a service and be denied as well as hear the anecdotal stories.

GTR and their government bosses could sort this in an instant but they choose not in the hope that commuters will turn on the staff, well they are in for a long wait. We know the truth and we (well me at least) are not buying their lies for one lousy minute. The interview with Perry in the Argus was an utter disgrace, basically her 'let them eat cake' moment. She clearly doens't give a sh*t as her hatchet men in GTR continue to hack away at one of the last set of unions that actually stand up for their workers and customers.

Southern/GTR/Govia with exactly the same managers and hierarchy have been running this franchise for 15 years in one name or another so for them to say about staff shortages in key roles I'd say well you've had long enough now to make sure you haven't.

There are many managers at Southern who have been there for the entire time that Govia have been running the franchise so why aren't they being asked why things are in such a mess when they are the ones who have caused it ?

Deadly Danson · Jun 15, 2016

Hotchilidog said:
Let's get this straight. SASTA do not have enough staff to fulfill their published timetable, they and they alone are responsible for this. GTR cannot moan about inheriting poor staffing levels when Govia and Southern were the previous franchisees. All that aside, with overtime and rest day working the company can run a just about passable service. They are choosing not to do so, they and they alone are playing around with the passengers. The staff are powerless, I have seen in person train crew who have turned up to run a service and be denied as well as hear the anecdotal stories.

GTR and their government bosses could sort this in an instant but they choose not in the hope that commuters will turn on the staff, well they are in for a long wait. We know the truth and we (well me at least) are not buying their lies for one lousy minute. The interview with Perry in the Argus was an utter disgrace, basically her 'let them eat cake' moment. She clearly doens't give a sh*t as her hatchet men in GTR continue to hack away at one of the last set of unions that actually stand up for their workers and customers.

Spot on.

Sussex Nomad · Jun 15, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
Have to smile.

The SASTA website states there is currently 'minor disruption' on the Gatwick Express route, a route which has had 45% of its services cancelled today.

In the current climate that is positively bloody good for them.

Tony Meolas Loan Spell · Jun 15, 2016

albionite said:
Straighter platforms, staff on platforms, better lighting at stations, better cameras, shorter trains. Mirrors

the main line from Brighton to Victoria could go all trains doo from above reasons but the rest of southern network doesn't have these things in place.

Ah fair enough. Thank you. Genuinely.

Horton's halftime iceberg · Jun 15, 2016

Arthur said:
I agree however I still don't see it's any different to what it is now. You could have all the staff in the world helping the wheelchair bound person off the train but then what if the only exit out of the station is on another platform which can only be reached by stairs. The only way I could think is if you rode the train to the bottom of the line and ride it back up. That falls down two fold on my line in that it would add an hour to the journey in some cases and secondly if you wanted to get the last train home it terminates at the bottom of the line and runs back to the depot empty (why it does that I do not know!?! I assume said depot is Sellhurst so why it cannot stop at all stations to East Croydon is a puzzling one a would have saved me a taxi fare home on a few occasions when I've fallen asleep).

But as I said it is shocking in our day and age, stations like yours have not been upgraded - step free access, close disabled parking, lifts or subways. this sort of stuff should have been basic requirements in any of the tenders, and you would think the companies would have fallen over backwards to do it, if they were in the bonus incentives of the owners.

It still comes down to what appears a terrible thing for dividends to shareholders to drop under that 40 million mark, thats a lot of customer money going out of the industry.

Uter · Jun 15, 2016

albionite said:
Straighter platforms, staff on platforms, better lighting at stations, better cameras, shorter trains. Mirrors

the main line from Brighton to Victoria could go all trains doo from above reasons but the rest of southern network doesn't have these things in place.

Presumably stations along the West Coastway to Littlehampton will be fitted out with the necessary equipment for DOO by 2018 when peak-time Thameslink trains will run there though?

AK74 · Jun 15, 2016

Here is today's omni-shambles:

Due to an electrical power supply failure between Streatham and Streatham Common some lines are blocked. Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 30 mins or diverted. Disruption is expected until 18:00.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 15, 2016

DFLs must be wondering what kind of scarcely believable shitstorm they've landed themselves in, and must now be having serious second thoughts. Shame for the rest of us tho.

Uter · Jun 15, 2016

The dispute seems like it is going to be a long one and I am starting to wonder what impact it may have on matchday travel for the coming season. It's not looking great.

albionite · Jun 15, 2016

Uter said:
Presumably stations along the West Coastway to Littlehampton will be fitted out with the necessary equipment for DOO by 2018 when peak-time Thameslink trains will run there though?

You tell me, first I've heard they are running along the west coast way.

Ernest · Jun 15, 2016

albionite said:
You tell me, first I've heard they are running along the west coast way.

I thought it was Southern wanting DOO west/east coast by August on 377's ?

beorhthelm · Jun 15, 2016

Uter said:
Presumably stations along the West Coastway to Littlehampton will be fitted out with the necessary equipment for DOO by 2018 when peak-time Thameslink trains will run there though?

yes, one would assume that if the lines aren't ready, they wont be slated for DOO until they are. so the RMT shot themselves in the foot going for strike action and making themselves look the villian, having tacitly agreed that the DOO is ok to go ahead once lines are ready.

Ernest · Jun 15, 2016

beorhthelm said:
yes, one would assume that if the lines aren't ready, they wont be slated for DOO until they are. so the RMT shot themselves in the foot going for strike action and making themselves look the villian, having tacitly agreed that the DOO is ok to go ahead once lines are ready.

Or the other way round Southern have engineered this dispute the way First Greatwestern did with their DOO dispute last year and then realised they didn't have the infrastructure or stock to go ahead so rapidly reversed after the strikes had their affect there

Uter · Jun 15, 2016

albionite said:
You tell me, first I've heard they are running along the west coast way.

Announced a couple of years ago when the franchise was awarded:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/tsgn/

Hover over Littlehampton and it says "4 trains from Littlehampton to London Bridge through the Thameslink core across London in the morning peak and 5 trains in the reverse direction in the evening peak".

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 15, 2016

Uter said:
The dispute seems like it is going to be a long one and I am starting to wonder what impact it may have on matchday travel for the coming season. It's not looking great.

Shocking prospect for locals and non-locals alike who aim to arrive in time for a midweek match, which will be 60+% of the advertised home fixtures. At least us locals can at worst do the long and dreary walk back into town. Wouldn't want to be going any further afield though.

The Albion Roar · Jun 15, 2016

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...ertime/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

A letter from a senior Southern manager telling supervisors not to authorise rest day working appears to prove claims that staff shortages are being exacerbated by a ban on overtime.

An angry member of staff approached Brighton & Hove News after Govia denied any overtime ban following claims made in a blog post by Sussex-based writer Dave Boyle based on discussions with station staff.

He said that although the ban had now been lifted, it had been put in place following the first of three strikes this spring by RMT members over safety concerns around the move to driver-only trains and the reworking of the conductor’s role.

And he provided this photograph (see link below) of a printed email from Southern’s head of conductors and on-board Piero McCarthy, annotated by a Southern manager making it clear that rest day working (RDW) was to be banned.

The note says: “no RDW A/R only for no cover”. A/R stands for As Required, which is a standard staffing measure whereby a bank of staff are rostered on to be on standby. With recent staff shortages, standby staff have routinely been called into action to cover gaps, so a shortage of As Required crew members has a significant knock-on effect on services.

In addition, staff have been banned from swapping shifts, which is commonly done to allow people to work around outside commitments such as childcare or be able to get to and from work in the early hours of the morning, and Southern has also cancelled the free transport passes given to staff and their families.

The member of staff said: “Traditionally on the railways you have a situation that there have always been people coming in on an As Required basis so that if things go wrong they have sufficient crew available to cope. Over the last three years now the probability of anyone coming in remaining As Required is virtually zero – they have been using us to fill vacancies through lack of recruitment.

“A ban on rest day working for As Required is effectively a ban on overtime in order to cover staff shortages. This has since been rescinded but the fact is that GTR is denying that it ever happened.

They’re sheltered from any fines because of the contract they have with the government, which pays them a flat fee. And since February, the government’s given them an extra 9,000 trains they can cancel.

“They have just had two complete days of talks at ACAS, during which the RMT put forward a seven point plan and the company refused point blank to give consideration to any of those points.

“They have stated from the start that this is going to happen. The point here is that the action is over the extension to driver only operation and the implications that has for the doing away of guards and replacing them with a watered down version which has nothing to do with passenger safety.”

Another member of Southern staff who spoke to Brighton & Hove News on strict condition of anonymity, confirmed the overtime ban, adding: “I think it was quietly bought back in so they could cover some of the vast amount of cancellations. But it’s clearly not working. Before the industrial action conductors got an enhanced payment as a thank you for working their day off. This isn’t the case anymore. Just flat money.”

On Monday, a spokesman for GTR, which runs Southern services, said the claim was completely untrue. However, this morning the [MENTION=26542]Southern[/MENTION]RailUK Twitter account admitted that a ban had been in place but had now been lifted.

Sadly, the document is pretty much unreadable on the Brighton & Hove News website, but here 'tis nonetheless. The content of the letter is outlined in the above report, we're told.

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Southern-letter-225x300.jpg

Ernest · Jun 15, 2016

Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
Ah fair enough. Thank you. Genuinely.

http://live.rmt.netxtra.net/news/rmt-launches-new-dossier-exposing-safety-risks-of-doo/

Deadly Danson · Jun 15, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...ertime/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

A letter from a senior Southern manager telling supervisors not to authorise rest day working appears to prove claims that staff shortages are being exacerbated by a ban on overtime.

An angry member of staff approached Brighton & Hove News after Govia denied any overtime ban following claims made in a blog post by Sussex-based writer Dave Boyle based on discussions with station staff.

He said that although the ban had now been lifted, it had been put in place following the first of three strikes this spring by RMT members over safety concerns around the move to driver-only trains and the reworking of the conductor’s role.

And he provided this photograph (see link below) of a printed email from Southern’s head of conductors and on-board Piero McCarthy, annotated by a Southern manager making it clear that rest day working (RDW) was to be banned.

The note says: “no RDW A/R only for no cover”. A/R stands for As Required, which is a standard staffing measure whereby a bank of staff are rostered on to be on standby. With recent staff shortages, standby staff have routinely been called into action to cover gaps, so a shortage of As Required crew members has a significant knock-on effect on services.

In addition, staff have been banned from swapping shifts, which is commonly done to allow people to work around outside commitments such as childcare or be able to get to and from work in the early hours of the morning, and Southern has also cancelled the free transport passes given to staff and their families.

The member of staff said: “Traditionally on the railways you have a situation that there have always been people coming in on an As Required basis so that if things go wrong they have sufficient crew available to cope. Over the last three years now the probability of anyone coming in remaining As Required is virtually zero – they have been using us to fill vacancies through lack of recruitment.

“A ban on rest day working for As Required is effectively a ban on overtime in order to cover staff shortages. This has since been rescinded but the fact is that GTR is denying that it ever happened.

They’re sheltered from any fines because of the contract they have with the government, which pays them a flat fee. And since February, the government’s given them an extra 9,000 trains they can cancel.

“They have just had two complete days of talks at ACAS, during which the RMT put forward a seven point plan and the company refused point blank to give consideration to any of those points.

“They have stated from the start that this is going to happen. The point here is that the action is over the extension to driver only operation and the implications that has for the doing away of guards and replacing them with a watered down version which has nothing to do with passenger safety.”

Another member of Southern staff who spoke to Brighton & Hove News on strict condition of anonymity, confirmed the overtime ban, adding: “I think it was quietly bought back in so they could cover some of the vast amount of cancellations. But it’s clearly not working. Before the industrial action conductors got an enhanced payment as a thank you for working their day off. This isn’t the case anymore. Just flat money.”

On Monday, a spokesman for GTR, which runs Southern services, said the claim was completely untrue. However, this morning the [MENTION=26542]Southern[/MENTION]RailUK Twitter account admitted that a ban had been in place but had now been lifted.

Sadly, the document is pretty much unreadable on the Brighton & Hove News website, but here 'tis nonetheless. The content of the letter is outlined in the above report, we're told.

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Southern-letter-225x300.jpg

And some on here are still believing GTRs and the government's blatant lies. I'd seen this document but thanks for publishing so it reaches a wider audience. I believe the RMT will soon be publishing a list of trains that have been cancelled despite having a guard and driver ready to work them so hopefully that will persuade a few more people where the blame for this shambles lies.

albionite · Jun 15, 2016

Uter said:
Announced a couple of years ago when the franchise was awarded:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/tsgn/

Hover over Littlehampton and it says "4 trains from Littlehampton to London Bridge through the Thameslink core across London in the morning peak and 5 trains in the reverse direction in the evening peak".

Can not see the key to which colour line belongs to who. As far as I know been told. thameslink are running down the Arun valley and even then they will be running fast(not stopping at little station) as they still need guards to despatch.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Br...Qj8nefeyKNHBS1u81Xi6ztA4PJdLu4Fs_onEvIVGAQR_g

This is what they have planned for 2018 but I'd take that with a pinch of salt with the railway as they change their minds every 2 months and I wouldn't believe a word they say until it actually happens.

Uter · Jun 15, 2016

albionite said:
Can not see the key to which colour line belongs to who. As far as I know been told. thameslink are running down the Arun valley and even then they will be running fast(not stopping at little station) as they still need guards to despatch.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Br...Qj8nefeyKNHBS1u81Xi6ztA4PJdLu4Fs_onEvIVGAQR_g

This is what they have planned for 2018 but I'd take that with a pinch of salt with the railway as they change their minds every 2 months and I wouldn't believe a word they say until it actually happens.

Thanks for that. Interesting.

This map is a bit clearer, although I am not sure when and where exactly it was published, and as you say plans can change.

http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Proposed 2018 Thameslink se.pdf

It does suggest that the original intention was to run the Littlehampton TLs along West Coastway rather than extend the Horsham services. If they are going through the TL core then I think they have to be 700s once TL is up to 24tph. Could be limited stop of course, but Coastway is much busier than Arun line so harder to do, especially in the peak. But, yes, plans can and do change.

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Southern Rail STRIKE details

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