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Jordan Maguire-Drew



chaileyjem

chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patron
Jun 27, 2012
13,911
BigGully said:
He has a couple of more years contract and I personally think he is too good to fail, but I am sure he has been frustrated at his injuries yes, but more so his lack of any real progress above the youth team., there are other players above him at present of a similar age.
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"contract" - Does he ? The club haven't offered him a DS contract although i guess they will in the summer.
"there are other players above him of a similar age" - James Tilley ? Well he's a year older. Anyone else ? Jack Harper (20), Hambo (21), Joe Ward (21), Bjordal (yep but he's a winger and already a u21 international), are all older and more experienced. Robin Deen (nope - he's 20), Perhaps Ayunga (18) who we signed a few months ago but you said it "other players" - Who ? Who do you mean ? Names ?
 




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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Thunder Bolt said:
I asked you before, how many players of a similar age are above him? I know of James Tilley, but you have typed players (plural).
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If you would like to do the research feel free and fill in the blanks yourself, its quite clear that you have group of young players that are vying for selection to the U21's, that is the aim of the U21's !!!

Tilley, Molumby, Cox, Collar, White, Barclay, Barnet, Hutchinson, Mar-Larsson are all of a similar age and generally at the same point in their physical and technical development cycle, JMD is physically matured he is able to compete at Premier League U21's level as he is at Worthing, so it is no more than a decision call from the staff.

Its up to them, but the point of a Cat 1 Academy with its multi million budget is to offer an environment where an aspiring young professional can prosper from within that structure, Youth, U21's, First Team, loans have a role to play but in my opinion to put a youngster out to a relatively low level non league side that cannot offer anything technically, tactically, psychologically or physically better than what our own U21's can, must be of some concern to any player that is encouraged to do so.
 


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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
chaileyjem said:
"contract" - Does he ? The club haven't offered him a DS contract although i guess they will in the summer.
"there are other players above him of a similar age" - James Tilley ? Well he's a year older. Anyone else ? Jack Harper (20), Hambo (21), Joe Ward (21), Bjordal (yep but he's a winger and already a u21 international), are all older and more experienced. Robin Deen (nope - he's 20), Perhaps Ayunga (18) who we signed a few months ago but you said it "other players" - Who ? Who do you mean ? Names ?
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I have been told that he signed a long term deal a as a schoolboy which included a 3 year professional from his 17th birthday ......
 


AZ Gull

AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,747
Chandler, AZ
BigGully said:
Perhaps, but why wouldnt you have him playing for current DS team, its not as if he has gone out to gain league experience.

Our under 21's have Newcastle away tomorrow whilst Worthing competes in the same league as Peacehaven, East Grinstead and Three Bridges, its a telling tale either for JMD or the clubs assessment of the current league of which they currently struggle to win a game.
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BigGully said:
Having to go out on loan to a local level side offering nothing superior to what is delivered by our own Academy structure, be it pitches, crowds, pressure, team mates and opponents for me would show that he might have slipped within the clubs pecking order.

You name one thing that Worthing might offer any young player from a Cat 1 Academy that could not be delivered within it, the answer is nothing, so it would be logical to conclude that he is not yet deemed good enough to command a regular place within our 21's a team that doesnt seem particularly competitive at present, yes I would be concerned.
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Not for the first time, I completely disagree with you. Albion U21s played Newcastle U21s at Crawley in the home league fixture just over two weeks ago. Newcastle's starting XI consisted of 6 first year scholars, 3 second year scholars and just two pros (one first year pro and one second year pro). The subs bench was made up of 3 first year scholars and 2 second year scholars. In short, it was essentially an U18 side.

Jordan Maguire-Drew would get absolutely no benefit from participating in a fixture like that. In fact, there is sufficient concern amongst the Cat 1 clubs about the lack of competitiveness of the existing academy structure that they are currently considering major changes - Premier League to discuss bold new youth development proposals

Worthing are currently fighting to make the play-offs in Ryman South. The fixtures have real meaning (much more meaning than the sterile Barclays U21 Premier League competition). The matches are played in front of hundreds of fans who are passionate about the game they are watching (and who have paid good money to get admission). In my view, Maguire-Drew will gain more from a handful of games playing for a senior mens team like Worthing than he will in a season playing for Albion U-21s.
 


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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
AZ Gull said:
Not for the first time, I completely disagree with you. Albion U21s played Newcastle U21s at Crawley in the home league fixture just over two weeks ago. Newcastle's starting XI consisted of 6 first year scholars, 3 second year scholars and just two pros (one first year pro and one second year pro). The subs bench was made up of 3 first year scholars and 2 second year scholars. In short, it was essentially an U18 side.

Jordan Maguire-Drew would get absolutely no benefit from participating in a fixture like that. In fact, there is sufficient concern amongst the Cat 1 clubs about the lack of competitiveness of the existing academy structure that they are currently considering major changes - Premier League to discuss bold new youth development proposals

Worthing are currently fighting to make the play-offs in Ryman South. The fixtures have real meaning (much more meaning than the sterile Barclays U21 Premier League competition). The matches are played in front of hundreds of fans who are passionate about the game they are watching (and who have paid good money to get admission). In my view, Maguire-Drew will gain more from a handful of games playing for a senior mens team like Worthing than he will in a season playing for Albion U-21s.
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Not for the first time I think you are wrong.

Although I enjoy your collation of stats on the young players, sometimes stats can lack depth and context, I was hoping you might of added some worthwhile stats that might have offered more to this debate, why not add JMD comparative stats against other players of a similar status, be it Molumby, Harper or Hutchinson instead you add a young Newcastle side to somehow show the worth of a loan to a club like Worthing, its a flawed assessment as Newcastle's young team which drew with our U21's would beat Worthing irrespective of their age and Worthing would not be superior in any aspect of the game, be it physical, technical, tactical or psychological, its a level too low.

It was never a choice between playing for BHA U21's or Worthing but more a likely choice of playing for Worthing or having no playing time for the U21's and thats the point and your stats could reasonably show this.

Why not show the stats for Tighe and Kandi, I cannot be sure but I think young pro Tighe has hardly featured for our 21's and Kandi seemed to fizzle out too and instead of sitting on the bench for our 21's they go to a Bognor team that although have more to offer than say Worthing, its still worth noting that Rusk prefers his more crucial players to stay and play for him, irrespective of their age.

Its just tell tale signs, it doesnt mean that the club are wrong or the players are doomed to failure but it lends a little snapshot to those current players status within the club at this particular time.

I agree that there is some concern on the structure of Academy's, I have personally spoken to two professional coaches that hold positions higher than Academy staff, they felt the real problem is that some of these youngtalented players can be playing against the same players from say under 12's right through to U21's football and it can become a little stagnant, however neither one would consider any club below say Conference level as a viable pathway for their best young players compared to playing for their current U21 teams within the Cat 1 Academys with their multi million pound budgets, absolutely not.

In generally I dont like talking about specific players (first team included) and especially young ones, it was just in response to the OP, I have no doubt that JMD will succeed he seems too good not to, but my point is how most people might assess a young players current worth to those coaches,for me it is impossible to deliver anything unique at Worthing Football Club what you cannot undoubtedly deliver within the structure of a Cat 1 Academy.
 
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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
@AZ_Gull

It seems the club has made decision on the retention and release of some of its young development players that have come to the end of their contracts.

This is not to labour the point, but I think you could gain from investigating each players playing profiles of those released and those retained, in the context of our earlier debate

Each one that has been released has not played very much for the U21's and have been put out on loan to mainly Sussex or similar level with only one higher (Vanaram National League South), whilst out of the three being retained two have played exclusively for the U21's with only one being placed on loan at Vanarama National League South.
 


S

severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
BigGully said:
@AZ_Gull

It seems the club has made decision on the retention and release of some of its young development players that have come to the end of their contracts.

This is not to labour the point, but I think you could gain from investigating each players playing profiles of those released and those retained, in the context of our earlier debate

Each one that has been released has not played very much for the U21's and have been put out on loan to mainly Sussex or similar level with only one higher (Vanaram National League South), whilst out of the three being retained two have played exclusively for the U21's with only one being placed on loan at Vanarama National League South.
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......and the players are?
 


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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
severnside gull said:
......and the players are?
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It would be common knowledge among those close to the players that already know etc etc, so no big deal in that respect, but when published perhaps worth a look if the earlier debate was of any interest to you ........
 




F

Finchley Seagull

New member
Feb 25, 2004
6,916
North London
BigGully said:
@AZ_Gull

It seems the club has made decision on the retention and release of some of its young development players that have come to the end of their contracts.

This is not to labour the point, but I think you could gain from investigating each players playing profiles of those released and those retained, in the context of our earlier debate

Each one that has been released has not played very much for the U21's and have been put out on loan to mainly Sussex or similar level with only one higher (Vanaram National League South), whilst out of the three being retained two have played exclusively for the U21's with only one being placed on loan at Vanarama National League South.
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I hadn't noticed this thread originally. Looking back over it, your claim that you don't have an axe to grind is ridiculous. You clearly have something against the club.
 


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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Finchley Seagull said:
I hadn't noticed this thread originally. Looking back over it, your claim that you don't have an axe to grind is ridiculous. You clearly have something against the club.
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You have not read my posts properly, it was a debate about the loans of young players and how this might represent a players position within it, you could transfer the debate to any other club professional football club, it was a personal view on the merits of some types of loans against some of the original comments, which I disagreed with.

It wasnt even a comment on whether the club was wrong or right, it was more on whether the U21's should be seen as a better progression pathway for a young professional against a averagely low level non league club .....
 


F

Finchley Seagull

New member
Feb 25, 2004
6,916
North London
BigGully said:
You have not read my posts properly, it was a debate about the loans of young players and how this might represent a players position within it, you could transfer the debate to any other club professional football club, it was a personal view on the merits of some types of loans against some of the original comments, which I disagreed with.

It wasnt even a comment on whether the club was wrong or right, it was more on whether the U21's should be seen as a better progression pathway for a young professional against a averagely low level non league club .....
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You keep saying it's not about the club but I did read your posts and they sounded very like an agenda of the club. Thinking back, there was a poster with a name very similar to yours who posted on here that the club had upset them and they were going to support Palace. I assume that wasn't you.
 




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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Finchley Seagull said:
You keep saying it's not about the club but I did read your posts and they sounded very like an agenda of the club. Thinking back, there was a poster with a name very similar to yours who posted on here that the club had upset them and they were going to support Palace. I assume that wasn't you.
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No that wasnt me and I have no agenda or axe to grind with the club.
 




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BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Finchley Seagull said:
Fair enough. It does sound a lot like you do from your posts but if you say you don't, then I'll take your word for it.
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I didnt say I am likely to agree with every twist and turn, especially within the academy ;)

Purely because this is the part that interests me and its the part where young players are at their most vulnerable, many times outcomes are driven by policy and not ability, but thats a debate for another day ....
 






Albion Robster

Albion Robster

Well-known member
Jul 21, 2003
2,422
North West
I heard on the grapevine Maguire-Drew was loaned out to Worthing as part of the deal that allowed Adam Hinselwood to join the coaching staff at the Albion from Worthing earlier in the season.
 


Horton's halftime iceberg

Horton's halftime iceberg

Blooming Marvellous
Jan 9, 2005
16,484
Brighton
Big play off final at home Saturday 15.00 ko afternoon v Faversham, these are great games for him to be playing in, Hope Worthing can win again and go up to the Premier although its a shame Lewes and Burgess Hill are coming down.
 


Marshy

Marshy

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
19,725
FRUIT OF THE BLOOM
Horton's halftime iceberg said:
Big play off final at home Saturday 15.00 ko afternoon v Faversham, these are great games for him to be playing in, Hope Worthing can win again and go up to the Premier although its a shame Lewes and Burgess Hill are coming down.
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Burgess Hill are not going down....... thanks to mis management at Farnbrough i believe...
 








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