How much of the problem is down to Tony Bloom?

scooter1 · Nov 30, 2014

portslade seagull said:
Personally I think he is being mis-informed by the other two B's who are telling him everything is very rosy in the garden when in fact all the buds/blooms have withered and died

Bloom might be stubborn, but he's not naive. He watches the games and can see the results. As it stands it's not working on the pitch and he will see this, it's what he does about it that matters.
I'd be very surprised if Hyppia is still in charge come Christmas, regardless of what it costs to replace him. Hyppia is not the man to turn this current shambles around, but he has also missed having a quality assistant to bounce ideas off. Both him and NJ will have to go, and the sooner they do, the sooner things should hopefully pick up

kevtherev · Nov 30, 2014

Springal said:
Read my earlier post as to why.

I did, but's that your view. I don't share it and neither do a lot of top managers. It has never worked with any great success in this country and never will. A manager should manage the club, yes he needs to tow the line on budgets etc, but you don't need a full time dof with his lists of players, that he thinks the manager should sign. That's the managers job, surely the CEO on his half a million pound a year can deal with signing players once the manager and HIS staff have targeted them.

SIMMO SAYS · Nov 30, 2014

Acker79 said:
NSC: Redefining 'fact' since 1997*

They didn't, Bloom said in his opinion we have one a squad who could challenge for one. You are free to disagree, but just because our results are poor it doesn't mean the players we have are incapable of challenging for the play offs.

-What do you expect? If he comes out and threatens to fire Hyypia if results don't pick up it adds pressure and stress to situations for everyone, and if there are extenuating circumstances to the results it stops him giving one more game, if he feels it is deserved.
-Three wins... we never win... which is it?
-Last season birmingham finished on 44 points and stayed up. Based on our current (last seven games) run of form, we're on target for 46 points - which would have been enough to stay up for three of the last four seasons.

We did quite well after they joined, as well. Consecutive play off finishes, highest finish in how many years?

*or whenever

Happy days then

GT49er · Nov 30, 2014

Springal said:
We also need a DoF as Tony Bloom is part time. He has other business interests and spends a significant amount of the year in Australia. You can't give a manager free reign and open cheque book in that scenario, and you can't expect a CEO to get overly involved in football decisions. Hence DoF.

Surprised how many people miss this point

No we don't need a DoF. We need a chief scout who is directly responsible to the manager. This does not mean giving the manager an open cheque book, any more than appointing a DoF gives him an open cheque book. TB and / or PB would just need to tell the manager how much is available to spend, same as they presumably currently tell DB.

Billy the Fish · Nov 30, 2014

I think people need a reality check. Of course the buck stops with Tony Bloom, he's made mistakes but what are you going to do about it?

Tony Bloom won't get everything right, that is a fact.

All he can do is truct his instinct and steer the ship as best he can, if he gets it wrong this season and we go down then so be it, it's bad but it's not the end of the world. The only absolute in this context is if the club goes out of existance, but I trust 100% that will never happen with Bloom at the helm.

portslade seagull · Nov 30, 2014

scooter1 said:
Bloom might be stubborn, but he's not naive. He watches the games and can see the results. As it stands it's not working on the pitch and he will see this, it's what he does about it that matters.
I'd be very surprised if Hyppia is still in charge come Christmas, regardless of what it costs to replace him. Hyppia is not the man to turn this current shambles around, but he has also missed having a quality assistant to bounce ideas off. Both him and NJ will have to go, and the sooner they do, the sooner things should hopefully pick up

Hopefully you are right we def need a manager with a bit of fight in him which can be passed to the team and some tactical nous as well might help

Springal · Nov 30, 2014

kevtherev said:
I did, but's that your view. I don't share it and neither do a lot of top managers. It has never worked with any great success in this country and never will. A manager should manage the club, yes he needs to tow the line on budgets etc, but you don't need a full time dof with his lists of players, that he thinks the manager should sign. That's the managers job, surely the CEO on his half a million pound a year can deal with signing players once the manager and HIS staff have targeted them.

It's not my view. That's why we have a DoF, as Bloom is part time.

You need someone between CEO & Manager. What happens if CEO vetos a decision, manager gets upset a money man is involved in football matters and relationship breaks down.
You said a lot of top managers, but the only recent interview backing that up is Tony Pulis...

Springal · Nov 30, 2014

GT49er said:
No we don't need a DoF. We need a chief scout who is directly responsible to the manager. This does not mean giving the manager an open cheque book, any more than appointing a DoF gives him an open cheque book. TB and / or PB would just need to tell the manager how much is available to spend, same as they presumably currently tell DB.

You'd trust an ex footballer to manage budgets etc ? Brave

KZNSeagull · Nov 30, 2014

Mike Small said:
Before you start I fully realise the amount of money he has and is putting into the Albion. I also like the fact we have a fan in charge of our club and not a foreign owner. However there are some things I feel we have to question.
1. Firstly the appointment of SH. He has no experience of managing in the championship or England and his record, albeit at a big German club, was poor. He almost got them relegated. Similarly we waited ages to appoint him. I can only hope that the reality was that he was 5th choice or something. The problem lies in the fact that that he wants to employ a yes man who will do what he, Burke and Barber tell him. What do they really know about managing a team? Appoint someone who is Premier League or as our ghastly club phrase says, 'Premier League Ready'.
2. Why state we have a play off potential squad? I appreciate the optimism but if your so sure why are our results so bad.
3. Why give such a full on backing to SH recently in the press and at the Seagulls Over London event? You are shooting yourself in the foot. 3 nervy wins against teams who have since sacked their managers (says it all really) does not constitute hope and to say you have been encouraged by the displays was remarkable. We've got some good players so they will do some okay things in games but we NEVER WIN and don't look like doing it enough times to get 40 points, let alone 50. I really fear he will be very stubborn or loyal AND stick with SH until it is too late.
4. This seasons is a carbon copy of Adams take 2 with all these loanees won't in reality don't care about us going down. We are panic signing anyone. It's also just like the 91-92 when we sold our striker (Mike Small) in the summer after making the play offs but went down.
5. All the blame has gone to Poyet for leaving but I'm critical of the club for not massaging his ego more. Use him like he used us perhaps. I'm not his biggest fan but he was and is a great manager who would have got us up if we could have kept things harmonious. Not piss him off but stating how we would have no money soon, hence him wanting to leave before the end of the season. Bloom and PR Barber couldn't manage him. I realise this is a tad critical but it's always been easy to point the finger at Poyet and not at our management.
6. The appointment of Burke and Barber? We were doing pretty well until then weren't we and they seem completely removed from any criticism. Although outwardly I realise he can't do this, I hope inwardly he is questioning things instead of blind faith.
I know the points above won't be to everyone's taste but I feel his biggest responsibility comes NOW. If he sticks with SH for anymore time, we will go down. I just hope he is not too stubborn or loyal to appoint a new management team before we slide into League 1 while training at the best training ground in the country.

1. He appoints young, up and coming managers. His last 2 appointment had no championship experience and yet did well. What is a "yes man"? If you mean someone who will work within the budget given and not throw his toys out of the pram then yes, he appoints yes men.
2. Because we do actually have some pretty good players.
3. Because he is loyal and willing to give people a fair go. Despite what he may think, he will never slag off an employee publicly.
4. If panic signing means signing Darren Bent then yes, we are panicking
5. As we have seen from the accounts, Poyet was backed as far as TB could. He got within a gnats whisker of the play-off final. At some point TB had to say no.
6. We were losing money hand over fist. Whilst we are still losing money, I am certain that had KB stayed we would be losing a lot more.
TB is also a progressive chairman and looked at the best set ups in world football - they all have Director of Football positions.

I am sure TB is well aware of our league position and current travails. If he wants to get rid of SH he will do so in his own time.

That's my take on it anyway.

Acker79 · Nov 30, 2014

SIMMO SAYS said:
Happy days then

Yes, that's exactly what I meant when I pointed out that it isn't a fact Bloom wants a yes man, 50 points isn't always necessary, and that we continued to achieve on field success after Burke and Barber joined us.

Skylar · Nov 30, 2014

Are we allowed academy 1 status in division one or more worryingly div two?

Billy the Fish · Nov 30, 2014

Mike Small said:
Exactly. Maybe Bloom is the problem if he thinks that SH is better for the club than a Poyet type figure. Bloom is increasingly striking me as out of his depth with his choices of management, football or otherwise.

Great - so WTF are you going to do about it?

He's not a football manager, you can't just sack him and find another multi-millionaire Albion fan who also happens to be one of the most successful sports gamblers in the world and is also willing to pump £200million into the club. They're sitting around on every street corner aren't they! :facepalm:

Mike Small · Nov 30, 2014

-What do you expect? If he comes out and threatens to fire Hyypia if results don't pick up it adds pressure and stress to situations for everyone, and if there are extenuating circumstances to the results it stops him giving one more game, if he feels it is deserved.
-Three wins... we never win... which is it?
-Last season birmingham finished on 44 points and stayed up. Based on our current (last seven games) run of form, we're on target for 46 points - which would have been enough to stay up for three of the last four seasons.

Firstly don't back him like he did saying he that he will be here for years. He won't and now Bloom looks foolish. He could have said something like "I fully expect results to improve under Sammi" not that he will be here for years. Why make such a bold statement?
- our three wins were against teams who have since sacked mangers. 3 wins out of 19 from being a play off team pretty much is 'we never win' but if you want to win a grammar debate then you have it.
- if you are content with 44 points then good for you. I'm not.

We did quite well after they joined, as well. Consecutive play off finishes, highest finish in how many years?
- we have gone backward on the field remarkably since they have been here

GT49er · Nov 30, 2014

Springal said:
It's not my view. That's why we have a DoF, as Bloom is part time.

You need someone between CEO & Manager. What happens if CEO vetos a decision, manager gets upset a money man is involved in football matters and relationship breaks down.
You said a lot of top managers, but the only recent interview backing that up is Tony Pulis...

You seem to be mixing up Bloom and the CEO - Bloom may be part time, but PB isn't. The manager might be upset if the budget is smaller than he would like - but that is a problem whether there's a DoF or not. The manager should have clear guidelines laid down as to how much is available, then work within that (or resign).

vegster · Nov 30, 2014

scooter1 said:
Bloom might be stubborn, but he's not naive. He watches the games and can see the results. As it stands it's not working on the pitch and he will see this, it's what he does about it that matters.
I'd be very surprised if Hyppia is still in charge come Christmas, regardless of what it costs to replace him. Hyppia is not the man to turn this current shambles around, but he has also missed having a quality assistant to bounce ideas off. Both him and NJ will have to go, and the sooner they do, the sooner things should hopefully pick up

Indeed. Tony Bloom will give 100% support to Hypia and Jones up to a point, only Tony knows where that point is but I will be willing to think that the Wolves game will be the turning point if we have not got 5-7 points out of Derby,Millwall and Wolves. Sami may even walk of his own accord before that happens but I would be pretty sure things will change one way or another by the 22nd Dec.

Mike Small · Nov 30, 2014

Billy the Fish said:
Great - so WTF are you going to do about it?

He's not a football manager, you can't just sack him and find another multi-millionaire Albion fan who also happens to be one of the most successful sports gamblers in the world and is also willing to pump £200million into the club. They're sitting around on every street corner aren't they!

I didn't renew my season ticket this year that's what I did about it. I never said sack him you moron. I appreciate the money he has poured in. I merely fear he is set in his ways/loyal/stubborn and things he does need to change before we sleep walk into league 1.

Skylar · Nov 30, 2014

kevtherev said:
Why do we need a director of football Every decent manager interviewed on tv says, they would never work with one but you say we need one, why and why do you think several people turned us down in the summer and we ended up wit Hyypia in the first place Maybe because we have a DOF and Jones must stay perhaps.

Jones was always going to stay and if SH gets the boot (No chance) then Nathan will be temporary manager.

GT49er · Nov 30, 2014

Springal said:
You'd trust an ex footballer to manage budgets etc ? Brave

Unbelievable! That's what managers do.

We're the Stripes · Nov 30, 2014

Mike Small said:
1. Firstly the appointment of SH. He has no experience of managing in the championship or England and his record, albeit at a big German club, was poor. He almost got them relegated.

Wait, when did that happen?

Acker79 · Nov 30, 2014

Mike Small said:
-What do you expect? If he comes out and threatens to fire Hyypia if results don't pick up it adds pressure and stress to situations for everyone, and if there are extenuating circumstances to the results it stops him giving one more game, if he feels it is deserved.
-Three wins... we never win... which is it?
-Last season birmingham finished on 44 points and stayed up. Based on our current (last seven games) run of form, we're on target for 46 points - which would have been enough to stay up for three of the last four seasons.

Firstly don't back him like he did saying he that he will be here for years. He won't and now Bloom looks foolish. He could have said something like "I fully expect results to improve under Sammi" not that he will be here for years. Why make such a bold statement?
- our three wins were against teams who have since sacked mangers. 3 wins out of 19 from being a play off team pretty much is 'we never win' but if you want to win a grammar debate then you have it.
- if you are content with 44 points then good for you. I'm not.

It's not a grammar debate, it's about the facts that make up the basis of your argument. When they are wrong, your argument is flawed.

I didn't say 44 points would make me happy, I merely pointed out we might not need 50 points as 44 has been enough in the past.

We did quite well after they joined, as well. Consecutive play off finishes, highest finish in how many years?
- we have gone backward on the field remarkably since they have been here

This season. They joined and we went on to improve getting our highest finish in almost 30 years, and followed it up with a what should be seen as an equally impressive achievement given the injury list and other players lost. Hardly a direct correlation between them joining and us finding ourselves in the relegation zone.

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