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Wigan chairman to quit if FA finds him guilty of racism



Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
Commander said:
No, but I think all this 'Alf Garnet is terrible' stuff these days is nonsense. It was from a different time, if it was funny at the time, so what? It was a different time. It wouldn't work in today's world, but that doesn't make it wrong.
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Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,598
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
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It also featured 'Scousers' although they seem to be fair game nowadays.
 


Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
13,799
Herts
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
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But in order to work as comedy, viewers had to recognise Alf as a character. They had to know someone like him, otherwise the comedy wouldn't have been funny; the reaction would instead have been "Huh? That's just ridiculous."

So a comedy about a racist, misogynistic bigot wouldn't work today because there are far fewer about today (though still too many) and thus too few people would be able to relate to the character. Perhaps, as you say, it could work with different targets?
 




M

marshy68

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2011
2,868
Brighton
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
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I agree with you on that point, it was the same with Rising Damp. Now though no TV compaines would touch a series like theses as they are deemed unacceptable. Is it right, is it wrong? I dont know. I guess the TV companies dont want to take the risk. Its funny though that Nick Griffin appearing on Question time caused a storm of controversy before the show was aired. It really did for him as it exposed him. My main point is DW should have know that saying anything related to racial sterotypes was at best naive...
 




Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,843
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Commander said:
No, but I think all this 'Alf Garnet is terrible' stuff these days is nonsense. It was from a different time, if it was funny at the time, so what? It was a different time. It wouldn't work in today's world, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Going back to Whelan though, he is an idiot for saying what he did because he must have known it would have caused a major storm. Maybe that's why he did it.
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I suspect you may be right - he doesn't need Wigan Athletic any more than he needed Wigan Warriors that he sold seven or eight years ago. He owns the DW stadium, (not the club), and with two major teams using it as their home ground provides a good income, enough to cover its costs.

He's shown that he is willing to walk away from enterprises he owns and I suspect it will be no different in the case of the Latics.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,366
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.
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Suspect that Till Death Us Do Part and Love Thy Neighbour worked on both levels, in the same way that, say, Saturday Night Fever and Quadrophenia did. You either gormlessly embraced the viewpoint of the main characters, or you got the point the writer was trying to make.
 


J

jimbob5

Banned
Sep 18, 2014
2,697
Tom Hark said:
Suspect that Till Death Us Do Part and Love Thy Neighbour worked on both levels, in the same way that, say, Saturday Night Fever and Quadrophenia did. You either gormlessly embraced the viewpoint of the main characters, or you got the point the writer was trying to make.
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In Love Thy Neighbour most of us, even then, thought the protagonist was a racist fool and the black neighbour was a nice chap but that program on ITV is considered non PC whereas TDUDP on BBC1 is considered cutting edge satire.
 




Commander

Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
12,972
London
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
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Well yeah they are, seeing as it was made before I was born and I probably watched it twice as a child.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,834
Hove
marshy68 said:
Are people ever too old to learn? Do you really believe you cant teach an old dog new tricks? I am 46 years old and I used to watch alf garnet and laugh. Now it seems like something from the dark ages and not funny at all. You can always learn and at the very least whelan should have learnt to kept his mouth shut the man is a fool.
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Alf Garnet was satirical. The brilliance of the satire, or failure of it depending on how you look at it, was that people thought he was funny, or related to Alf in some way. The truth of the matter is that Alf Garnet was created to shine a mirror at those with racist, misogynist attitudes.

If anything the writing in Alf Garnett was way ahead of it's time. His attitudes were supposed to appall you, and make you ridicule these type of figures. Warren Mitchell's portrayal of Johnny Speight's moronic character was so good however, it actually for many had the reverse impact in that some didn't view it as satire at all and related to Garnett's behaviour.

You were meant to laugh at Alf Garnett, just not with him.
 


FREDBINNEY

FREDBINNEY

Banned
Dec 11, 2009
317
Herr Tubthumper said:
Are you thick or just trying to be controversial?
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What on earth is racist about referring to someone as a negro ? Old fashioned perhaps ,but racist ? Not in my book ,or have liberal white hand wringers like yourself arbitrarily deemed negro "offensive" ?
 






FREDBINNEY

FREDBINNEY

Banned
Dec 11, 2009
317
Lord Bracknell said:
Blimey! Are there people around who missed the point about Alf Garnett? That the programme was a hard-hitting attack on bigotry, not a load of jokes about "coons" that we were supposed to think were funny.

I suspect that a similar programme would work today. It's just that the targets would be different.
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Whilst I doubt warren Mitchell is genuinely racist I suspect that the series was trying for laughs by pandering to widely held prejudices at the time and the "point" of the series was hastily decided when these became unfashionable.
 










FREDBINNEY

FREDBINNEY

Banned
Dec 11, 2009
317
Buzzer said:
I don't think black people like being referred to as 'negro/negroid'. It has bad historical connotations.
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You don't think or you know ?Sounds like something that's been decided by the Emily thornberrys of this world.
 






J

jimbob5

Banned
Sep 18, 2014
2,697
FREDBINNEY said:
How about giving me a genuine answer , or is it that you're merely playing to the gallery and can't ?
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OK guilty. You could argue that it's acceptable but generally it is not something people like being called or referred to as these days. Some people still say 'coloured' which is not the worst word but shows a lack of awareness on their part. I'd excuse anyone of over say 90 for using it although you would not hear Nicholas Parsons calling someone a negro or coloured I suspect.
 


brakespear

brakespear

Doctor Worm
Feb 24, 2009
12,326
Sleeping on the roof
FREDBINNEY said:
Whilst I doubt warren Mitchell is genuinely racist I suspect that the series was trying for laughs by pandering to widely held prejudices at the time and the "point" of the series was hastily decided when these became unfashionable.
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no.
 


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