It's FRIDAY and hereeeeeeee's HARTTTTTTTTY !!!!!!

Tom Hark Preston Park · Nov 21, 2014

Goldstone1976 said:
Well, the wages were high enough two seasons ago to get us to 4th, and high enough last season for 6th, and this season we're told they are higher than for both those seasons. So for your point to be valid, at least 12 clubs must be paying much more for their squads this season than they did last. My guess is that they can't all be doing so.

To me, it's much more likely that our current lowly position is due to some combination of poor recruitment, poor tactics, poor coaching &/or bad luck than a lack of investment, be it absolute or relative.

Fair enough. But IMHO to quote last season's play-off place is a red herring, and one that TB also seems to be falling for. We were nowhere near good enough to be serious contenders to progress to the next level, as was confirmed as soon as the play-offs started. Face it, we were never at the races in last season's play-offs. Unlike the previous season where promotion was there for the taking. Lucky for Palace that we never turned up in the second leg of the semi and Watford never turned up for the final. Gah!

Goldstone1976 · Nov 21, 2014

Tom Hark said:
Fair enough. But IMHO to quote last season's play-off place is a red herring, and one that TB also seems to be falling for. We were nowhere near good enough to be serious contenders to progress to the next level, as was confirmed as soon as the play-offs started. Face it, we were never at the races in last season's play-offs. Unlike the previous season where promotion was there for the taking. Lucky for Palace that we never turned up in the second leg of the semi and Watford never turned up for the final. Gah!

Yep, I agree with all of that! We were certainly lucky to get a play off spot last season and got torn a new one by Derby.

ROSM · Nov 21, 2014

Simster said:
To be honest, so do I. But football is cyclical and has always been like this - you can't appreciate the good times without going through the bad.

It's just that when we're on a downward slope, it doesn't mean there is anything fundamentally rotten at the club. Yes Bloom will have to learn that "trust me *taps nose*" won't cut it, and Trevor Burke doesn't appear to be terribly successful, and CMS has represented piss poor value for money on the pitch, but it won't always be like this.

That's what makes Harty sound such a bellend when he invokes memories of the days of Archer. It's the Albion equivalent of Godwin's Law. Just f**king leave it.

i know things are cyclical, but its not just about performances. as the club has grown, the need to be more professional has grown. thats good. what i never anticipated was that the ability to spin and in some cases allow the negative to take hold to discredit individuals would also have become so professional.

its like watching primary colours

Guinness Boy · Nov 21, 2014

Simster said:
Whilst I agree with the thrust of your point, nobody muttering about the negative state of the club seems prepared to voice an opinion on what the actual problem is. Is it the cost of the season tickets or pies? It can't be that, or people wouldn't buy them. Is it the state of the team? Hmmm, maybe, but we have just reached the play-offs in successive years. Is it the happy clappy culture and overzealous stewards? Seems a trivial gripe.

So what is it?

May I draw a parallel with my son's school (bear with me). When he first went there it was OFSTED outstanding, the best grade you can get. The teachers shouted it from the rooftops. The head shouted it from the rooftops. Estate Agents made cunning reference to it. And when there was a shortage of places locally it was the natural one to expand. For a while this too went well. The new building, everyone agreed was a marvellous facility and the much trumpeted "outstanding" allowed the recruitment of teachers from a select pool. Only, guess what? They over extended themselves. People had to project manage the expansion instead of teach the kids and no one knew what goals the bigger kids should be set. OFSTED came back in and they were downgraded to a 3 "required improvement." And guess what? This was everyone else's fault, Michael Gove and OFSTED were evil and the school was fine according to the leaders, even though the day before the visit they had been telling new parents they were "outstanding" against the same criteria and background. Basically some clever and arrogant people took on too much and blamed everyone else when it went wrong.

I hope the metaphor isn't lost on anyone but I will spell it out. David Burke has been massively distracted by the Academy project, one of the hires from the "marvellous" pool turned out duff and Paul Barber can only talk about the Premier league when we are a point off relegation.

Finance meanwhile has been playing the Gove and OFSTED role. Wages are sickening. Parachute payments are sickening. And everyone's just moved the goalposts on FFP, including us.

Tim Over Whelmed · Nov 21, 2014

Lord Bracknell said:
I thought the season only started once we'd reached the end of the January transfer window.

No, no, that''s signifies the start of Britain's Got Talent and leads us nicely into Strictly Dancing in the Jungle on Ice

Commander · Nov 21, 2014

Ernest said:
Our man BRINGS the debate to an END

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/sport/harty/harty-on-england-s-win-and-the-nsc-debate-conclusion-1-6426985

Wow, what a fabulous, insightful, superbly written article.

Buzzer · Nov 21, 2014

ROSM said:
This is a very good point. I feel very despondent about the albion at the moment but I cant articulate why without sounding like an ungrateful whining imbecile

Strange how things work. Since we've returned to being rubbish I've felt strangely lifted about the Albion. I stressed and worried like hell when it looked like we were going places a couple of seasons back but now normal service has been resumed and we're just plain mediocre, I'm quite happy with my lot as an Albion fan -especially as we seem to be stuck with Sami for the long term! I go to matches with little or no expectation of a result and I'm rarely disappointed.

El Presidente · Nov 21, 2014

We've got the budget of a slightly above average club this season, and we've underperformed a bit.

The last two seasons we had the budget of a slightly above average club in this division, and we overperformed a bit.

We weren't brilliant the last two seasons and we sneaked into the playoffs, we have been poor this season, but I can't recall many teams (apart from 'Boro) looking a lot better than us.

Pavilionaire · Nov 21, 2014

Re England vs. Scotland. These matches are now a pale shadow of what they once were. There were empty seats on Tuesday, and the Glasgow crowd only came to life for 90 seconds just after they pulled a goal back.

England were comfortably the better side despite having an inexperienced defence, and were up against supposedly one of the better Scotland sides of recent years. I would not want to see this fixture return regularly to the calendar until such time as Scottish football has got its act together.

As for his comments on the Albion he is alluding to something being inherently wrong in the way the club is run, way over and above a run of dodgy results. Yet I can't see what makes this club different from practically every other club in the Championship.

Stat Brother · Nov 21, 2014

It must be nice being able to decide when to start a potentially libelous fight, with a bunch of ill-conceived ideas and an obvious personal agenda.
Then be able to decide when it's over, without ever having to apologise or correct yourself.

Lord Bracknell · Nov 21, 2014

Buzzer said:
Strange how things work. Since we've returned to being rubbish I've felt strangely lifted about the Albion. I stressed and worried like hell when it looked like we were going places a couple of seasons back but now normal service has been resumed and we're just plain mediocre, I'm quite happy with my lot as an Albion fan -especially as we seem to be stuck with Sami for the long term! I go to matches with little or no expectation of a result and I'm rarely disappointed.

This chimes with me.

In my youth, I was a Birmingham City supporter. That set me up nicely to cope with any amount of disappointment.

Questions · Nov 21, 2014

Simster said:
Whilst I agree with the thrust of your point, nobody muttering about the negative state of the club seems prepared to voice an opinion on what the actual problem is. Is it the cost of the season tickets or pies? It can't be that, or people wouldn't buy them. Is it the state of the team? Hmmm, maybe, but we have just reached the play-offs in successive years. Is it the happy clappy culture and overzealous stewards? Seems a trivial gripe.

So what is it?

I'll tell you what is wrong Simster. We have replaced some great players with ordinary ones and are now struggling in the league.
We have spent too much in the last 3 years and now we have to cut our cloth accordingly unless Bloom sells the club to some mega rich foreigner.
The other matters are all trivial and you don't need to worry about them..........just trust me.

catfish · Nov 21, 2014

Questions said:
I'll tell you what is wrong Simster. We have replaced some great players with ordinary ones and are now struggling in the league.
We have spent too much in the last 3 years and now we have to cut our cloth accordingly unless Bloom sells the club to some mega rich foreigner.
The other matters are all trivial and you don't need to worry about them..........just trust me.

Quite - and we're heading for league 1.

GT49er · Nov 21, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
May I draw a parallel with my son's school (bear with me). When he first went there it was OFSTED outstanding, the best grade you can get. The teachers shouted it from the rooftops. The head shouted it from the rooftops. Estate Agents made cunning reference to it. And when there was a shortage of places locally it was the natural one to expand. For a while this too went well. The new building, everyone agreed was a marvellous facility and the much trumpeted "outstanding" allowed the recruitment of teachers from a select pool. Only, guess what? They over extended themselves. People had to project manage the expansion instead of teach the kids and no one knew what goals the bigger kids should be set. OFSTED came back in and they were downgraded to a 3 "required improvement." And guess what? This was everyone else's fault, Michael Gove and OFSTED were evil and the school was fine according to the leaders, even though the day before the visit they had been telling new parents they were "outstanding" against the same criteria and background. Basically some clever and arrogant people took on too much and blamed everyone else when it went wrong.

I hope the metaphor isn't lost on anyone but I will spell it out. David Burke has been massively distracted by the Academy project, one of the hires from the "marvellous" pool turned out duff and Paul Barber can only talk about the Premier league when we are a point off relegation.

Finance meanwhile has been playing the Gove and OFSTED role. Wages are sickening. Parachute payments are sickening. And everyone's just moved the goalposts on FFP, including us.

Ouch! That rather strikes a chord......god post.

Dick Knights Mumm · Nov 21, 2014

Questions said:
I'll tell you what is wrong Simster. We have replaced some great players with ordinary ones and are now struggling in the league.
We have spent too much in the last 3 years and now we have to cut our cloth accordingly unless Bloom sells the club to some mega rich foreigner.
The other matters are all trivial and you don't need to worry about them..........just trust me.

Do you think it might just be the cyclical nature of football ? Not every Club can improve year on year. We had our opportunity, didn't take it - now it is another club's turn.

Dick Knights Mumm · Nov 21, 2014

Buzzer said:
Strange how things work. Since we've returned to being rubbish I've felt strangely lifted about the Albion. I stressed and worried like hell when it looked like we were going places a couple of seasons back but now normal service has been resumed and we're just plain mediocre, I'm quite happy with my lot as an Albion fan -especially as we seem to be stuck with Sami for the long term! I go to matches with little or no expectation of a result and I'm rarely disappointed.

Chimed with me as well. This season I have tried to re-calibrate my expectation levels. I try to just look to enjoy the games, meet friends, have a pint or two, discuss the game briefly - then onto the usual bollocks.. It only seems to be on here where there just seems to be so much anger and resentment.

Miami Seagull · Nov 21, 2014

Tom Hark said:
Failure to invest in the playing side to a competitive level, pure and simple.

This, but there is more to it. Successive previous managers with concerns over recruitment responsibilities and procedures is a significant concern. Money has been invested, good money, but not effectively and not in time to replace players we knew weeks and sometimes months in advance that were leaving (Bridcutt, Barnes, Ulloa and Buckley).

Dick Knights Mumm · Nov 21, 2014

Miami Seagull said:
This, but there is more to it. Successive previous managers with concerns over recruitment responsibilities and procedures is a significant concern. Money has been invested, good money, but not effectively and not in time to replace players we knew weeks and sometimes months in advance that were leaving (Bridcutt, Barnes, Ulloa and Buckley).

You may be right - but we do pay good money and should be seeing better from the players we have. We are just not seeing a team as being greater than the sum of its parts. In fact - with the tactics we employ - they are worse.

Box of Frogs · Nov 21, 2014

Harty has decided the debate is over, so we must do as we are told!

Questions · Nov 21, 2014

Dick Knights Mumm said:
Do you think it might just be the cyclical nature of football ? Not every Club can improve year on year. We had our opportunity, didn't take it - now it is another club's turn.

Pretty much DKM. Time to re-group, take stock and then Bloom will have to make some decisions in the summer.

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