EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

sir albion · Oct 27, 2014

Captain Sensible said:
Lol, sorry I didn't mean my post to be so. Its just the explaining and re explaining, I get a bit tired of it sometimes. I like exchanging views with you Westy. Much more than many others on here because you follow the thread. Rather than some that jump into a thread, and say something that came up 10 pages ago.
I think the crux of it for me is that I don't mind the EU making some of our laws and I don't mind the open boarders . If the uk would get its own sh*te in order and make it a little less attractive to come here, then most of the open border problem goes away. I also think the open borders are a small price for financial access to the EU trade, as we've discussed before.
What annoys me is that ukip, have no answers, no strategy, no plans on how an exit would be delt with or how we would recover after the inevitable financial hardship of an exit. I think it's irresponsible and I just hope there are enough sensible people in the uk to reject an EU exit.
Then I hope there are enough sensible countries in the EU that realise there needs to be reform that allows nations more Room to negotiate certain terms.
That's all I'll say on this thread now. Over to someone else to do battle with you ukips. Have a good evening.

The EU is a giant flop,wether it's here or any other EU country..Take a good look at other EU countries in crisis with super high unemployment etc.
Im astonished people want us to stay in the EU while we get fleeced for billions every year and get jack shite back.You want open bloody borders? Obviously you're not affected by immigrants flocking here are you?
Yes the countries infrastructure is way behind what's required,but the EU's policy of "you have to take the immigrants"stance ips pathetic,so we have to spend billions of £'s to improve our infrastructure to cater for the huge amount of immigrants and then give the EU twats billions on top of that.

Let's be honest Great Britain is not liked by most of Europe and we will never be liked...Time to get out and then focus on better trade deals all over the world.Trade will not be an issue if and when we leave the EU.

We're a hard working nation who work long hours and pay a lot of tax...While most of Europe work low hours and have a chilled life...Do I like my taxes disappearing into the EU abyss?like Fack i do

sir albion · Oct 27, 2014

looney said:
So what do you suggest? Beat up foreigners? Collapse the economy?

Scrap the benefits system?
You must get people coming here who leave their families at home knowing we will send a check to pay for the upbringing of their kids back home.
£30 million + a year alone that goes to poland...good old EU polices are a joke

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Oct 27, 2014

Alex said:
Konrad Adenauer, King of Belgium, Ted Heath, anyone who voted yes in the 1975 referendum........................?

But surely in 75 it was a vote whether or not to stay in the 'common Market'?

Soulman · Oct 27, 2014

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
But surely in 75 it was a vote whether or not to stay in the 'common Market'?

Yep. I don't think what has been allowed to happen since was signed up for.

nicko31 · Oct 27, 2014

The reality the £1.7 billion is a drop in the Ocean compared to our deficit which is running at £120 billion.

While Cameron continues to play politics and make his own rules up as he goes, we're fast becoming a laughing stock

Soulman · Oct 27, 2014

Days after demanding £1.7bn from Britain... EU chief secures £100k-a-year pension for LIFE
BRUSSELS bureaucrat Jose Manuel Barroso will enjoy a taxpayer-funded pension for life worth more than £100,000 a year when he steps down this week, it emerged today.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Oct 27, 2014

nicko31 said:
The reality the £1.7 billion is a drop in the Ocean compared to our deficit which is running at £120 billion.

While Cameron continues to play politics and make his own rules up as he goes, we're fast becoming a laughing stock

True about a drop in the ocean, but with the fastest growing economy in the EU, I hardly think the UK or Cameron are a laughing stock.

nicko31 · Oct 27, 2014

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
True about a drop in the ocean, but with the fastest growing economy in the EU, I hardly think the UK or Cameron are a laughing stock.

Well if the sun is shining the roof is still leaking Dave...

beorhthelm · Oct 27, 2014

nicko31 said:
The reality the £1.7 billion is a drop in the Ocean compared to our deficit which is running at £120 billion.

thats ok then, we should just pay it like good liitle europeans. sorted, move on to the next bill.

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 27, 2014

brighton fella said:
anyone who is in favour of staying in the EU now needs their heads tested.
afraid to say this is only the start of things to come.

Do you want to test my head now, or later.

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 27, 2014

beorhthelm said:
thats ok then, we should just pay it like good liitle europeans. sorted, move on to the next bill.

Haven't got time to wade through the whole thread to see if such points have already been made, but:
1. They should have been able to forecast this coming. It was entirely predictable. In fact I would not be surprised if this were a situation semi- manufactured by Cameron just so that he can make a fuss.
2. Has he not already semi-retreated from the initial harrumph.
3. That is how it works. If you are doing well, you pay in. If you are struggling, you receive. We will have received in the past.
4. Osborne knew about this apparently 2 days before Cameron did. Was he afraid, or is it incompetence?

So many questions. These things are rarely as straightforward as they seem. Anybody who thinks we just received a bill totally unexpectedly is totally naive, and is believing what certain politicians want them to think.

Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo! · Oct 27, 2014

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
But surely in 75 it was a vote whether or not to stay in the 'common Market'?

I was seeking to clarify post #319 - "Just look to the people who instigated an open door policy"
Ardenauer, the King of Belgium and others established the European Economic Community and agreed the original Treaty of Rome in 1957. The Treaty guaranteed EEC citizens the freedom to travel, work and settle in any member state, Ted Heath's government took us into the EEC in 1972, the 1975 referendum confirmed our membership and, ergo, acceptance of the Treaty of Rome.

Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo! · Oct 27, 2014

DavidinSouthampton said:
Haven't got time to wade through the whole thread to see if such points have already been made, but:
1. They should have been able to forecast this coming. It was entirely predictable. In fact I would not be surprised if this were a situation semi- manufactured by Cameron just so that he can make a fuss.
2. Has he not already semi-retreated from the initial harrumph.
3. That is how it works. If you are doing well, you pay in. If you are struggling, you receive. We will have received in the past.
4. Osborne knew about this apparently 2 days before Cameron did. Was he afraid, or is it incompetence?

So many questions. These things are rarely as straightforward as they seem. Anybody who thinks we just received a bill totally unexpectedly is totally naive, and is believing what certain politicians want them to think.

I believe Kenneth Clarke suggested in the HoC today that the Treasury and FO knew 5 weeks ago.

brighton fella · Oct 27, 2014

Captain Sensible said:
I don't think you understand. I don't even think you read my post properly. I simply said how EU law is written in British law. I didn't say overrule. I said in an earlier post they may challenge. Much as Cameron just has with the extra contribution. My point was that I personally don't care who dreams up the laws, many of you seem to think you have some sort of power if Westminster were to once again make our laws. Because they were so good at that weren't they. Yes much better when the MP's of Westminster passed laws you could do nothing about and had no say it power in. And before you say anything about voting my mp out if I don't like what they do, most if the time A, you hadn't voted them in and B, they have to tow the party or whips line. So you have almost no say. Much like the EU commission. The thing is I fail to see these terrible awful EU laws that are holding me back day after day. Where are they? In fact for me working for a company my working conditions have improved considerably because of EU law. I don't think id have certain things in my working life if it was left to Westminster. Millions more are the same. I still fail to see what magical transformation would happen once we leave the EU, have financial instability through the exit, then come out the other side, poorer, and yet into some sort of Sovereignty Utopia! Total nonsense.

you mention challenge...tbh they can challenge the EU all they bl*ody well like but they aren't about to get anywhere with it. EU take the attitude it's my way or the highway.
you mention voting....whether my local mp is good at his job or not at least ive got the right to vote for the man.... shame I cant say the same about the EU elite who are seen to be pushing all of the buttons and making 75% of british law. in other words by having the right to vote means atleast you've got some chance of removing someone who's not at all popular wheras not having the right to vote means that you haven't got a cat in hells chance of removing him.
being able to vote is democratic..not being able to vote is a dictatorship..

beorhthelm · Oct 27, 2014

DavidinSouthampton said:
Haven't got time to wade through the whole thread to see if such points have already been made, but:

its been covered and more. you seem to be adressing seperate points to that quoted. the attitude that "its only a drop in the ocean" overlooks that everything is a small amount individually. we are in the situation we are because for a decade our government kept on spend another few hundred million £ on this, or that, or the other.

i do think Cameron has milked it, and also boxed himself into a corner at the same time. but i dont believe it was "known", only the event, not the amount due would have be known far in advnace.

Captain Sensible · Oct 27, 2014

brighton fella said:
you mention challenge...tbh they can challenge the EU all they bl*ody well like but they aren't about to get anywhere with it. EU take the attitude it's my way or the highway.
you mention voting....whether my local mp is good at his job or not at least ive got the right to vote for the man.... shame I cant say the same about the EU elite who are seen to be pushing all of the buttons and making 75% of british law. in other words by having the right to vote means atleast you've got some chance of removing someone who's not at all popular wheras not having the right to vote means that you haven't got a cat in hells chance of removing him.
being able to vote is democratic..not being able to vote is a dictatorship..

Ok I was leaving this thread but some of you are so stuck in your anti EU views you don't see the havoc that will be wrecked to cut the arteries that tie us the the EU.

1. I mention challenges because the UK can challenge a law or directive, the fact that it has the least amount of challenges in the EU says something. It says that the hysteria around EU law is not shared in government and for good reason.
Because most laws are an improvement in our society, and the uk's lack if challenges proves that.
2. The fact that you can vote out an mp that votes for Laws in the uk you don't like means nothing, when they vote in a law when the party whip puts the pressure on there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Vote them out (if the vote goes your way), and then hope the next guy does what you want. I'm not saying I want no say but the EU does have to send its law proposals to the Parliment of which you should have voted on an mep.
3. Again I say, what is so bad? What EU laws (excluding immigration) would a British government change once out of Europe?
4. If it's only immigration that is the issue, is it worth throwing billions away from the EU's trade that contributes 78bn to our GDP?
5. There is NO exit policy! Strategy, preparation. No explanation how we would get over the financial crash and turbulence after an exit? Is it really worth it because of worrying over a few Bulgarians?

Captain Sensible · Oct 27, 2014

sir albion said:
You want open bloody borders? Obviously you're not affected by immigrants flocking here are you?
Let's be honest Great Britain is not liked by most of Europe and we will never be liked

So you are overrun by immigrants then? Where? From which nation? Why does it bother you? How does it negatively impact on you? Does it make you feel uncomfortable?

Please explain, and if it's not YOU personally, the same questions regarding another person that is badly affected by immigrants that you mention.

Maybe you need to make idiots like me understand why I need to be so afraid.

cunning fergus · Oct 28, 2014

Alex said:
I was seeking to clarify post #319 - "Just look to the people who instigated an open door policy"
Ardenauer, the King of Belgium and others established the European Economic Community and agreed the original Treaty of Rome in 1957. The Treaty guaranteed EEC citizens the freedom to travel, work and settle in any member state, Ted Heath's government took us into the EEC in 1972, the 1975 referendum confirmed our membership and, ergo, acceptance of the Treaty of Rome.

To some extent I can agree with this, the freedom of movement arrangement was known, however how many nations were in the EEC then.......six?

That is not the case now, yet the UK, not mention EU electorate, have never got a say on something as important as EU enlargement, or did we ever know who actively supported and who didn't. When it was explained on the accessation for Poland we were told freedom of movement was not a big deal and only 15,000 poles would arrive.

Looking forward, I can see Ed Miliband and Labour actively support Turkey's inclusion in the EU so I won't vote Labour, however that does not automatically mean Turkey won't join the EU because if the Council (under QMV) and Commission decide to let them join (like they are doing with Ukraine), it don't matter what way I or the UK electorate vote.

http://ceftus.org/2012/07/04/message-from-ed-miliband/

The hard facts are that being in the EU means that UK politicians or UK MEPs cannot work for the UK's interests unless those interests align with wider EU policy, and as we know these 2 matters are not always compatible.

Nobody in the UK signed up for that in the EEC referendum.

cunning fergus · Oct 28, 2014

DavidinSouthampton said:
Haven't got time to wade through the whole thread to see if such points have already been made, but:
1. They should have been able to forecast this coming. It was entirely predictable. In fact I would not be surprised if this were a situation semi- manufactured by Cameron just so that he can make a fuss.
2. Has he not already semi-retreated from the initial harrumph.
3. That is how it works. If you are doing well, you pay in. If you are struggling, you receive. We will have received in the past.
4. Osborne knew about this apparently 2 days before Cameron did. Was he afraid, or is it incompetence?

So many questions. These things are rarely as straightforward as they seem. Anybody who thinks we just received a bill totally unexpectedly is totally naive, and is believing what certain politicians want them to think.

I am pretty sure we have always been a net contributor maybe save the initial join phase, as I think we were paying 19% of the contribution in late 70s. That was when the CAP was around 80% and shortly after Mrs T got the rebate.

Whatever you say about the mess around the communication of this "fee", some of which I agree with you on, it is elements of the EU budget like CAP which the British electorate pays for which are so wrong headed, and clearly not in wider British interests.

The Commission has the neck to imposes spending constraints on EU members, it's about time it took its own medicine.

brighton fella · Oct 28, 2014

Captain Sensible said:
Ok I was leaving this thread but some of you are so stuck in your anti EU views you don't see the havoc that will be wrecked to cut the arteries that tie us the the EU.

1. I mention challenges because the UK can challenge a law or directive, the fact that it has the least amount of challenges in the EU says something. It says that the hysteria around EU law is not shared in government and for good reason.
Because most laws are an improvement in our society, and the uk's lack if challenges proves that.
2. The fact that you can vote out an mp that votes for Laws in the uk you don't like means nothing, when they vote in a law when the party whip puts the pressure on there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Vote them out (if the vote goes your way), and then hope the next guy does what you want. I'm not saying I want no say but the EU does have to send its law proposals to the Parliment of which you should have voted on an mep.
3. Again I say, what is so bad? What EU laws (excluding immigration) would a British government change once out of Europe?
4. If it's only immigration that is the issue, is it worth throwing billions away from the EU's trade that contributes 78bn to our GDP?
5. There is NO exit policy! Strategy, preparation. No explanation how we would get over the financial crash and turbulence after an exit? Is it really worth it because of worrying over a few Bulgarians?

to sum it up I am not happy with the fact that we are paying 55million pounds per day (20billion pounds per year) to an organisation who I don't trust and don't get any say in.

listen the anger coming from the euro sceptics is because we have never been given a say in none of this, you can argue 1975 but I like countless of others were to young. the farcical of 1975 was that the british public were to be given a choice to vote for nothing more than a common market solely for trade purposes only ..or so everyone was lead to believe. but little did the public know that behind the scenes our filthy corrupt government of its time were planning something completely different for us by signing away our sovereignty and handing over british rule to the rest of Europe, had people of known the real truth about this from the very start the outcome of the vote would have been completely different.
its sad that our nation has been sold and cheated behind our backs, and to witness our very own prime minister having to grovel and suck up to a german dictator such as angela merkel was nothing than a disgrace and a huge injustice to all those who gave their lives for this country in a war that was supposed to have saved us free from german dictatorship.

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