Educating the East End

The Grockle · Sep 7, 2014

Soulman said:
I would just like your opinion CS. I worked with quite a few lads (2006) who had moved out of the Croydon area, i asked why and was informed it was because of the troubles and fighting (they had young kids) and i assumed it was fighting between the whites and blacks. I was told that the whites and blacks got on fairly well and it was the muslims and the blacks that did not get on with each other. Any substance in this view?

Hmmm not sure i'm the best person to comment as I left the area a couple of years ago and only really lived in nice(ish) areas.

From my experience though there's harmony between white kids and 2nd/3rd generation migrants but I'm told there's more friction between the forementioned and new wave migrants from somalia, Afghanistan, sri lanka and to a lesser extent now Ghana but more in places like west croydon, thornton heath and the historically white working class area of new Addington.
I feel one of the problems is that there's quite a delicate balance of different cultures living together and then a new wave comes along and inadvertently causes ructions. About 10 years ago for instance there was massive ructions between west indians and new wave ghanains with a number of shootings in West Croydon but I think its calmed down somewhat now.

I think people from outside of Croydon forget just how large the place is, it's so large and varied from area to area from some of the most impoverished, dangerous areas to some lovely residential areas where you'll rarely if ever come across crime. I have to say though the policing as a whole is absolutely shocking, almost non existent which leaves many places feeling like ghettos and very intimidating.

Now the million dollar question, would I raise a family in Croydon? I love the place, half my family are settled there and it is definitely the place I call home but i'd have to consider very carefully where i lived and the freedom I gave my kids. If I had to live in a housing estate though there's absolutely no chance I would because the schools are poor and ive seen first hand how vicious and violent young kids can be, I've witnessed some shocking scenes to be honest.

Soulman · Sep 7, 2014

croydon seagull said:
Hmmm not sure i'm the best person to comment as I left the area a couple of years ago and only really lived in nice(ish) areas.

From my experience though there's harmony between white kids and 2nd/3rd generation migrants but I'm told there's more friction between the forementioned and new wave migrants from somalia, Afghanistan, sri lanka and to a lesser extent now Ghana but more in places like west croydon, thornton heath and the historically white working class area of new Addington.
I feel one of the problems is that there's quite a delicate balance of different cultures living together and then a new wave comes along and inadvertently causes ructions. About 10 years ago for instance there was massive ructions between west indians and new wave ghanains with a number of shootings in West Croydon but I think its calmed down somewhat now.

I think people from outside of Croydon forget just how large the place is, it's so large and varied from area to area from some of the most impoverished, dangerous areas to some lovely residential areas where you'll rarely if ever come across crime. I have to say though the policing as a whole is absolutely shocking, almost non existent which leaves many places feeling like ghettos and very intimidating.

Now the million dollar question, would I raise a family in Croydon? I love the place, half my family are settled there and it is definitely the place I call home but i'd have to consider very carefully where i lived and the freedom I gave my kids. If I had to live in a housing estate though there's absolutely no chance I would because the schools are poor and ive seen first hand how vicious and violent young kids can be, I've witnessed some shocking scenes to be honest.

Thanks for replying and the details.
What were these areas of Croydon like when your parents were growing up?

The Grockle · Sep 7, 2014

Soulman said:
Thanks for replying and the details.
What were these areas of Croydon like when your parents were growing up?

No problem.

My parents didn't grow up there or ever lived there to be honest but i'm told Croydon has always been quite similar, afluent to the south and more workiing class to the north. I was told by an old chap that Thornton heath was a very nice place 60 years ago a really nice and friendly community. Its a very rough and unpleasant plsce these days although theres some very nice houses.

User removed 4 · Sep 8, 2014

croydon seagull said:
No problem.

My parents didn't grow up there or ever lived there to be honest but i'm told Croydon has always been quite similar, afluent to the south and more workiing class to the north. I was told by an old chap that Thornton heath was a very nice place 60 years ago a really nice and friendly community. Its a very rough and unpleasant plsce these days although theres some very nice houses.

I'll reply at some point I'm drunk at the Moment,but from what I can see at the moment it won't be very difficult to expose the arguments of serial 'I don't live there but feel qualified to comment' planks.

The Truth · Sep 8, 2014

Where the hell is London?

Never heard of it until I read this thread. :moo:

The Grockle · Sep 8, 2014

bushy said:
I'll reply at some point I'm drunk at the Moment,but from what I can see at the moment it won't be very difficult to expose the arguments of serial 'I don't live there but feel qualified to comment' planks.

Is this really directed at me? I think i'm more than able to comment on an area I lived in for over 10 years up until very recently.

EDS · Sep 8, 2014

croydon seagull said:
Is this really directed at me? I think i'm more than able to comment on an area I lived in for over 10 years up until very recently.

I thought what you said was pretty spot on. Not sure about Croydon having some of the most dangergous areas though, I always saw Croydon as an improvement on other parts of London. Although west Croydon down to Thornton heath/Mitcham is a not somewhere I would live.

The Grockle · Sep 8, 2014

EDS said:
I thought what you said was pretty spot on. Not sure about Croydon having some of the most dangergous areas though, I always saw Croydon as an improvement on other parts of London. Although west Croydon down to Thornton heath/Mitcham is a not somewhere I would live.

A close friend of mine lives in Thornton heath about five miutes from the station and whilst it doesnt have the same grimy feel of some inner city housing estates it's a pretty bad place late at night. Personally ive never experienced anything particularly bad but ive heard many horror stories. It really isnt a nice area but granted maybe not one of the most dangerous.
I also know a fair few people from New Addington and there is massive social problems there, to be expected if you chuck over 20 thousand people in a relatively confined space. I'm told its a much, much better place compared to how it was before the trams got put in.

EDS · Sep 8, 2014

croydon seagull said:
A close friend of mine lives in Thornton heath about five miutes from the station and whilst it doesnt have the same grimy feel of some inner city housing estates it's a pretty bad place late at night. Personally ive never experienced anything particularly bad but ive heard many horror stories. It really isnt a nice area but granted maybe not one of the most dangerous.
I also know a fair few people from New Addington and there is massive social problems there, to be expected if you chuck over 20 thousand people in a relatively confined space. I'm told its a much, much better place compared to how it was before the trams got put in.

I have always liked new Addington, which may sound crazy. But even though it has problems I a!ways saw it as a nice area with open spaces, almost a bit suburban. Then again when you have spent time running the gauntlet of the north Peckham estate/Old Kent road areas most things are an upgrade I suppose. Do you live back in Sussex now?

User removed 4 · Sep 8, 2014

croydon seagull said:
Is this really directed at me? I think i'm more than able to comment on an area I lived in for over 10 years up until very recently.

No mate , not at all .

User removed 4 · Sep 8, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
Are you and bushy not comparing notes? Tower Hamlets was exactly the place he quote as being the worst example.

Brighton not diverse? Are you mental? Everyone's welcome in Brighton. And having lived in multi cultral Sydney and been in a less than 1% minority in Tamil Nadu and Taipei I'd be fine with it being more diverse still.

you're f*cking deluded if you're trying to call brighton diverse , compared to London its pretty much monocultural, its also very easy to say you'd be happy for it to be more multicultural , you KNOW its not going to happen.

Guinness Boy · Sep 8, 2014

bushy said:
you're f*cking deluded if you're trying to call brighton diverse , compared to London its pretty much monocultural, its also very easy to say you'd be happy for it to be more multicultural , you KNOW its not going to happen.

You're only thinking in terms of race. The Eastern European population of Brighton has been growing steadily for the last ten years to the point where there are two Polish shops within 50 yards on Boundary Road. Brighton is well known as a gay and party town, another thing that could possibly disturb the mythical woman on the omnibus don't you think? Talking of which there are so many language schools in Brighton it's impossible to get a seat on the buses in summer and probably 75% of the occupants aren't speaking English. For some odd reason most people here aren't bothered by that either.

You say it won't happen but it has started in places. If we accept EDS' observation that there are 16% White British in Newham (which he hasn't backed up) then there must be a lot of white dominated areas in London to get the overall % to 60% which I have proved using census data.

The centre of Brighton will always be full of a mix of middle class white parents, middle class students and total fruitcakes. However, wherever there is still social housing there are immigrants. Thus the 60/40 mix in my son's class. The last five kids to join have been from Poland, Malaysia, Ivory Cost, The UEA and Romania respectively.

Whitehawk, Portslade etc will never reach the Newham levels I grant you but the area has changed substantially from when I was a kid and there were a grand total of two non whites in our year.

EDS · Sep 8, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
You say it won't happen but it has started in places. If we accept EDS' observation that there are 16% White British in Newham (which he hasn't backed up) then there must be a lot of white dominated areas in London to get the overall % to 60% which I have proved using census data.

Well that's wrong for a start, show me where it says that 60% of London is white British.

Guinness Boy · Sep 8, 2014

EDS said:
Well that's wrong for a start, show me where it says that 60% of London is white British.

I already posted the link for you but let me google it for you again. London 59.8% in the table under Ethnicity, source quoted as the 2011 census.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Tower_Hamlets

User removed 4 · Sep 8, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
A chav to me is just an artless person. Not all chavs are poor and not all the working class are chavs (obviously I would have thought). Too many people in this country settle for shit music, shit food, shit literature, shit drama and shit newspapers. And WAY too many people blame everyone but themselves for their lack of work or success. If being against that makes me snobbish I'm happy to accept but you know as well as I do there's no point being a football fan if you hate the working classes. What a pointless, self defeating existence that would be, spending every Saturday with people you can't stand.

What you both don't explain is WHY people should be afraid of their new neighbour who looks a bit different, cooks differently, prays differently. Since we've managed to establish that I can get though Tower Hamlets and back four times a week without bumping in to anything I think NSC can take my word for it that not every flat is full of 35 Romanian labourers or Somali drug gangs or terrorists. So come on, why is it so terrible for the elderly to be stuck next to a quiet Pakistani family rather than the East End equivalent of the Philpots?

You write like a white person never picked up a knife or sold drugs or committed an act of terror (hello Noethern Ireland). Like the white drug gang from Liverpool who terrorised a Hove council flat resident in to selling for them don't really exist. I bet you think the Krays were lovely people who were great to their mum and you could both regale NSC for hours with tales of their kindly, rascally japes before you hopped on to the white flight bus to Croydon and Haywards Heath.

What a crock of sh1t , you quite clearly look down your nose at the white working class in a way your middle class values wouldn't allow you to with a black or Asian, you're so clueless its painful with your comments that people should work hard at school and gain qualifications to allow them the 'option of a middle class existence' you still haven't answered my question about the people who don't have the ability to do this have you? What about the bus drivers/postmen/shop workers who are uncomfortable and dislike the way their area has changed beyond all recognition , they can fu*k themselves because they're thick white chavs who don't appreciate how great it is to experience the wonderful cultures that have landed on their doorstep , you want me to explain ' WHY people should be afraid of their new neighbour who looks a bit different, cooks differently, prays differently' its because not just a 'bit' different some of these immigrants have truly disgusting habits, when I lived in bow we couldn't open the flat windows(they opened by tilting) , because used sh1t filled nappies regularly used to land on them, thrown straight out of the windows by the Bangladeshis who lived above , guess what , take a person out of rural Africa or syhlet in Bangladesh , and they're still going to behave as if they're at home,I've seen Somalis sh1tting in the street ,Africans regularly pissing wherever they feel like it , but its all good because they're just a 'bit' different.

Deleted member 22389 · Sep 8, 2014

bushy said:
you're f*cking deluded if you're trying to call brighton diverse , compared to London its pretty much monocultural, its also very easy to say you'd be happy for it to be more multicultural , you KNOW its not going to happen.

Completely agree. For example in Brighton you will not find Indian, African, Pakistani or Eastern European communities in numbers. In Luton you have a large Pakistani community, you also have a lot of Africans, Indians and Eastern Europeans. I don't know if anywhere in Sussex has these areas yet and in the same numbers, because that is the difference. I love what Brighton stands for and I hope that is never lost. I don't want Brighton to become an unsafe place because peoples culture and religion gets in the way.

User removed 4 · Sep 8, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
I already posted the link for you but let me google it for you again. London 59.8% in the table under Ethnicity, source quoted as the 2011 census.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Tower_Hamlets

white BRITISH are now a minority in London , that's a fact, they constitute 44.9% of London's population.

Guinness Boy · Sep 8, 2014

bushy said:
What a crock of sh1t , you quite clearly look down your nose at the white working class in a way your middle class values wouldn't allow you to with a black or Asian, you're so clueless its painful with your comments that people should work hard at school and gain qualifications to allow them the 'option of a middle class existence' you still haven't answered my question about the people who don't have the ability to do this have you? What about the bus drivers/postmen/shop workers who are uncomfortable and dislike the way their area has changed beyond all recognition , they can fu*k themselves because they're thick white chavs who don't appreciate how great it is to experience the wonderful cultures that have landed on their doorstep

Those are your words not mine.

you want me to explain ' WHY people should be afraid of their new neighbour who looks a bit different, cooks differently, prays differently' its because not just a 'bit' different some of these immigrants have truly disgusting habits, when I lived in bow we couldn't open the flat windows(they opened by tilting) , because used sh1t filled nappies regularly used to land on them, thrown straight out of the windows by the Bangladeshis who lived above , guess what , take a person out of rural Africa or syhlet in Bangladesh , and they're still going to behave as if they're at home,I've seen Somalis sh1tting in the street ,Africans regularly pissing wherever they feel like it , but its all good because they're just a 'bit' different.

Thanks for being so refreshingly honest. I'm sure NSC can now make it's mind up.

The Truth · Sep 8, 2014

It's hardly multi-cultural to place the same skin colour and race in the one area!?

Areas like Walthamstow spell out segregation more than culture.

daveinprague · Sep 8, 2014

bushy said:
white BRITISH are now a minority in London , that's a fact, they constitute 44.9% of London's population.

However, they are the largest single ethnic group, but keep grizzling.

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