March for England 2014

fataddick · Apr 18, 2014

Typical ploy from the neo-Nazis. Trying to justify their own actions (violence, destruction, etc) on the basis that other people do it to. It's hilarious watching videos of these muppets getting nicked - they always put on squeaky eunuch voices and whine "they were throwing stuff too" about the antis. Mentality of the playground. Also comparing the UAF to MFE is farcical. The former includes the current Prime Minister as one of its founders (and continued supporters), the latter is a few dozen pissed and coked up Hampshire wifebeaters.

Billy the Fish · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
So, lets tolerate racist, fascists, who have advertised their intent to commit violence in the city.

1) Tolerating people who have different views to our own is part of being a democratic society. You can't seem to get your head around this concept.

2) I'm not sure how you can commit violence against and entire city. If they break the law they will be arrested by the hundreds of police on duty to babysit them

3) Nobody is supporting them on this thread, even the people who are sympathetic to their views think they are idiots. The point people are trying to make is that sending in another group of equally violent people to oppose them is not the answer and will make things worse for people trying to enjoy Brighton. Again you can't seem to get your head around this concept.

I don't know what else to say. I think you're a lost cause dave :shrug:

daveinprague · Apr 18, 2014

1) Tolerating people who have different views to our own is part of being a democratic society. You can't seem to get your head around this concept.

Tell me what their view is exactly, and how that view relates to Brighton?
Tell me why this group of ex Football hooligans, rightwing activists, and out, and out Neo Nazis, who are led by a Portsmouth based group are doing this in Brighton?

GreersElbow · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
Not entirely sure why when wanting a ban on people who have been openly making threats of violence towards the cityn, that I have to defend every left wing event in the country..

As long as none of you people who are arguing against a ban, are quiet if there is a parade involving the violent left wing in the city, following them making thrreats of violence against the city.

I want a free country, banning marches, protests and organisation leads to unaccountable underground movements that become more and more violent. However, again, you're avoiding the main point. Typical of anyone to defend the tactics of the left in general.

Let's review WHY the MfE/EDL march in Brighton has turned to violence in the past 3-4 years when previously it went by with no issue and little incidents. Who arrived and aggravated? I don't like having to defend the far-right. However, the far-left attracted the far-right. Your signature quote exemplifies my point, they acknowledge it's now for confrontation rather than a genuine march for national pride.

So, what was the catalyst for change? The confrontation from the left-wing groups in the first place who begun accusing anyone waving a flag about of being a neo-fascist scumbag. The EDL like types see there was trouble. (Who's the EDL's arch enemy? - the UAF) They see the UAF behaving in a confrontational manner, they see the day out as a way to have a scrap with the UAF. Of course, what you then have is loads of EDL types turning out for a scrap rather than a march and the whole city suffers.

The problem is, Dave. You're completely ignoring the change in mood of the march. It never all of a sudden became an attraction for the far-right, it wasn't until the UAF turned up that the violence started.

daveinprague · Apr 18, 2014

So, with violence advertised, I would have thought, that was a decent reason to ban the march... Which is what ive said from the beginning.

GreersElbow · Apr 18, 2014

fataddick said:
Typical ploy from the neo-Nazis. Trying to justify their own actions (violence, destruction, etc) on the basis that other people do it to. It's hilarious watching videos of these muppets getting nicked - they always put on squeaky eunuch voices and whine "they were throwing stuff too" about the antis. Mentality of the playground. Also comparing the UAF to MFE is farcical. The former includes the current Prime Minister as one of its founders (and continued supporters), the latter is a few dozen pissed and coked up Hampshire wifebeaters.

Ignoring a lot of information there, aren't you. The former is also a way for politicians to show their anti-racism stances, they have little to no influence over the everyday functioning of these groups who run autonomously alongside local SWP branches.

May I ask, have you ever attended a UAF meeting? I have, I used to be a member of the Socialist Party of England and Wales. I knew exactly how the UAF was organised, funny that Martin Smith is one of the executives of the UAF and was until last year also on the executive committee of the SWP until allegations of sexual harassment.

The ostrich effect well in truly in action here.

GreersElbow · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
So, with violence advertised, I would have thought, that was a decent reason to ban the march... Which is what ive said from the beginning.

You think they'll come under the guise of the MfE? The UAF still hold their unity events, they attract the EDL type a lot. They'll turn up doing "flash demos" as they like to call them.

When you have a legal march, you can hold people accountable and you can maintain order much more easily. If you ban it, you push them underground and it makes it harder to hold individuals accountable if violence (which would still be likely) occur.

A few years ago, I attended one of the counter-protest. The sporadic fighting went over the entire weekend, starting on Friday night. A UAF meeting was attacked by the Portsmouth and Brighton EDL, the march took place on Saturday if I recall, where more fighting took place. Then Sunday, the local Antifa were out and a few more fights broke out.

You can ban the march, don't mean you're preventing the violence.

Deleted member 22389 · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
1) Tolerating people who have different views to our own is part of being a democratic society. You can't seem to get your head around this concept.

Tell me what their view is exactly, and how that view relates to Brighton?
Tell me why this group of ex Football hooligans, rightwing activists, and out, and out Neo Nazis, who are led by a Portsmouth based group are doing this in Brighton?

What like using religion to takeover schools in the UK and people can't say a damned thing in case that offends someone. Not us who is abusing our democracy is it. This country worked just fine up to 15 years ago, and I really wish these type of people would foff out this country. You see they want it both ways, they want to enforce their own standards in this country, whilst enjoying the freedoms at the same time. It doesn't work like that. Have to say our so called democracy has been used and abused. The country is getting worse, and if it wasn't for these problems I highlight above, these groups that appear in Brighton wouldn't exist.

fataddick · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
So, with violence advertised, I would have thought, that was a decent reason to ban the march... Which is what ive said from the beginning.

Head cop has said the only way to ban the march would involve banning all marches/processions (by anyone) from Brighton for a period of three months. They'd then arrange another march for when the three months were up, resulting in another three month ban having to be imposed, etc, etc. If anything this is what the fascist scum want - they'd consider it a victory that they'd effectively be putting a stop to all 'leftie' 'commie' 'hippie' etc marches/protests in Brighton.

The best approach is probably the one Sussex Police have (non-explicitly) adopted of making things as uncomfortable as possible for the fascists, kettling them, truncating the march (this year's route is even shorter than last year's, about 300 yards!) and turning a blind eye to back street educations. This has had the effect of reducing fascist numbers year on year, until eventually the whole thing will just die out. This year the police aren't even going to escort the Nazis from the station to the start point on Kings Road, so half of them probably won't even make it to the march.

This seems a much more organic way of dealing with the problem, rather than imposing three month bans on all marches in the city.

daveinprague · Apr 18, 2014

Oh its anti muslim protest is it?

fataddick · Apr 18, 2014

GreersElbow said:
Ignoring a lot of information there, aren't you. The former is also a way for politicians to show their anti-racism stances, they have little to no influence over the everyday functioning of these groups who run autonomously alongside local SWP branches.

May I ask, have you ever attended a UAF meeting? I have, I used to be a member of the Socialist Party of England and Wales. I knew exactly how the UAF was organised, funny that Martin Smith is one of the executives of the UAF and was until last year also on the executive committee of the SWP until allegations of sexual harassment.

The ostrich effect well in truly in action here.

I'm well aware that the UAF is a front for the counter-insurrectionary vanguardist Swappie tosspots. The UAF are far less important than you (and especially they) think they are. That's something the Nazis can't get their heads around as can be seen with the constant anti-UAF blathering of the fascist groups. The vast majority of people turning out to oppose the March For Eejits wouldn't give the UAF/SWP or any other paper-selling Trot bellends the steam off their piss. The "antis" isn't a bunch of UAF members, it's the ordinary people of Brighton. If the UAF ceased to exist tomorrow it would make no difference at all to the kind of "welcome" Prodromou and his friends get when they turn up in this city to march.

daveinprague · Apr 18, 2014

If Brighton is anything to go by, UAF is massive these days haha but I've said before its not just UAF ...but for fascists (and their facilitators won't let go of it) its all UAF!!

glasfryn · Apr 18, 2014

good player and may get into the World cup squad

oops, I think I might have misunderstood the thread title
Oh its that march for England :wanker:

melias shoes · Apr 18, 2014

The Wookiee said:
But aren't those who are marching supposed to be the violent *******s ?

Yes that is what I was getting at In a previous post. Both groups are as bad as each other. Both violent. Both unwanted. Both unwelcome. I wish they would stay away.

Milton Keynes Seagull · Apr 18, 2014

daveinprague said:
Quite impressive for 'pasty faced, skinny, middle class student runt that plays at being a revolutionary, he/she believes it makes them look hard and menacing'

So, lets tolerate racist, fascists, who have advertised their intent to commit violence in the city.

What we tolerate, as a tolerant and democratic nation, is the right of all individuals and organizations to impart their views, demonstrate and indeed hold marches, as long as they respect the law of the land and do not threaten or themselves advocate violence to their opponents. If the police thought that the march organizers intent (as opposed to random internet postings of supposed supporters) would not adhere to these principles then they would ban it.

The majority of the people of both Brighton and Hove and indeed the country I believe share these beliefs. As someone who is resident in a country which suffered so much from both Nazism and Communism, one would have thought that you would have shared the new Czech Republic's desire to respect free speech and lawful assembly.

Mr Bridger · Apr 18, 2014

Milton Keynes Seagull said:
What we tolerate, as a tolerant and democratic nation, is the right of all individuals and organizations to impart their views, demonstrate and indeed hold marches, as long as they respect the law of the land and do not threaten or themselves advocate violence to their opponents. If the police thought that the march organizers intent (as opposed to random internet postings of supposed supporters) would not adhere to these principles then they would ban it.

The majority of the people of both Brighton and Hove and indeed the country I believe share these beliefs. As someone who is resident in a country which suffered so much from both Nazism and Communism, one would have thought that you would have shared the new Czech Republic's desire to respect free speech and lawful assembly.

I've been down the pub on a Good Friday and have got a right life but I'm trying to decipher this .

Are you saying David from the Prague should practise what he peaches?

User removed 4 · Apr 19, 2014

daveinprague said:
Did you 'Just HAVE to comment'

Good to see you, as a father, enjoy jokes about paedophiles.....

that's a desperate clutching at straws even for a bellend like you.

Guinness Boy · Apr 19, 2014

bashlsdir said:
What like using religion to takeover schools in the UK and people can't say a damned thing in case that offends someone. Not us who is abusing our democracy is it. This country worked just fine up to 15 years ago, and I really wish these type of people would foff out this country. You see they want it both ways, they want to enforce their own standards in this country, whilst enjoying the freedoms at the same time. It doesn't work like that. Have to say our so called democracy has been used and abused. The country is getting worse, and if it wasn't for these problems I highlight above, these groups that appear in Brighton wouldn't exist.

The notion of creeping sharia really is absolute nonsense. It's panic and scaremongering. It's like saying the country was about to be taken over by football hooligans in the 80s. There is a small, vocal, idiotic, extremist minority of Muslims who love the sound of their own voices. Most are simple peaceful people. However both the government and the mainstream media aren't helping.

The government - both this one and the old Labour one- love faith schools. It shows that they're doing "something" about secularisation while at the same time reducing the cost to Central and Local Government of education. But once you allow them you HAVE to allow them for all faiths. Comply with all the rules and you could open a Zoroastrian Free School in Peckham tomorrow. My own personal answer to this would be to have OFSTED inspect the Islamic free schools regularly until you could be sure they were actually offering proper education rather than being madrasahs. But then I'd also have OFSTED regularly check on Catholic faith schools to make sure the attached priest didn't have a little chamber where he offered special services to the children in his care. I wonder how many on here would think that was fair?

Secondly the mainstream media need to take a good hard look at themselves. After the Woolwich verdicts Radio 4 OF ALL STATIONS got the Islamic view from none other than Anjem Choudrey, a violent, extremeist "community leader". They were actually roundly condemned, not only by the right but by a lot of Muslims and left leaning journalists.

The problem is that extremeist free schools and Anjam Choudrey are "good tv" and a nice, intelligent family who get on with their lives, pay their taxes and pray on Fridays aren't. Just as PPF, Footsoldier and indeed Dave in Prague don't rpresent the views of most Albion fans. Just (to return to the hoolies analogy) as the ICF, 657 crew or Combat 18 don't speak for most football fans.

turienzo's lovechild · Apr 19, 2014

Billy the Fish said:
3) Nobody is supporting them on this thread, even the people who are sympathetic to their views think they are idiots. The point people are trying to make is that sending in another group of equally violent people to oppose them is not the answer and will make things worse for people trying to enjoy Brighton. Again you can't seem to get your head around this concept.

I don't know what else to say. I think you're a lost cause dave

daveinprague said:
1) Tolerating people who have different views to our own is part of being a democratic society. You can't seem to get your head around this concept.

Tell me what their view is exactly, and how that view relates to Brighton?
Tell me why this group of ex Football hooligans, rightwing activists, and out, and out Neo Nazis, who are led by a Portsmouth based group are doing this in Brighton?

just read "point 3" again please, not sure why you can't get your head round it

Soulman · Apr 19, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
The notion of creeping sharia really is absolute nonsense. It's panic and scaremongering. It's like saying the country was about to be taken over by football hooligans in the 80s. There is a small, vocal, idiotic, extremist minority of Muslims who love the sound of their own voices. Most are simple peaceful people. However both the government and the mainstream media aren't helping.

Secondly the mainstream media need to take a good hard look at themselves. After the Woolwich verdicts Radio 4 OF ALL STATIONS got the Islamic view rom none other than Anjem Choudrey, a violent, extremeist "community leader". They were actually roundly condemned, not only by the right but by a lot of Muslims and left leaning journalists.

I think most of the protests by Andy Choudary and his mob are kept out of the media. Of course the Rigby murder could not have been kept out of the news, the same as a murder by any other group would not have been. The BBC news worldwide on the TV had plenty of moderate Muslims condemning the murder. Maybe in our democratic society Radio 4 (which is not heard worldwide, let alone seen) felt it needed to put both sides over.
Yesterday, on Good Friday, around Regents Park, this march was allowed to happen, and like many of this sort i did not see any coverage on the news last night.
So if bans are to be put in place, then it has to cover all, which as stated will make things worse.
When these countries that are mentioned in the clip, like Somalia, Iraq etc, the speakers fail to mention that Muslims are killing each other in these countries.
By the way, i love the phoney accents from the protesters who were born and educated in Britain

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