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Ashley Barnes isn't nearly good enough for us.







Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,519
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
brightonrock said:
The abuse of Barnes is pathetic. You know there are, actually, different types of striker. The Davies/Drogba/Berbatov type player who hold it up, wins it in the air and is strong, putting himself about. Then there are more lightweight players, who rely on electric pace, fantastic technique or good positional play combined with anticipation. Michael Owen for example. Or even dare I say it, Leon Knight? Leon wasn't going to shoulder a centre half off the ball but he got in the right places and he scored the goals to take us up. Barnes is this player. He's not as physical as Murray, but he gets into fantastic positions and he reads the game well. Technically, he is decent without being brilliant - but the clinical finishing comes with experience, which right now he doesn't have that much of. The important thing is he's young, he has plenty of time to improve that. But the instinct of a striker is something that can't be taught. You can do weights in the gym to toughen up, or practice shooting to get the technique perfect. But Barnes has instinct, and I'd take a 21y/o with instinct and 10 goals at the half way stage of the season any day.

Ignore the stats? No, because they tell the whole story, in black and white, beyond prejudice against a certain player because you don't rate him. 10 goals, at the half way stage. On for 20 goals on current form. In the same way we're top of the league, at the half way stage. Barnes can bitch and moan, roll about, get bundled off the ball and duck out of tackles as much as he wants, if he continues to make contributions in terms of goals. People say strikers are judged on goals. He is scoring them. So shut up.
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With this and the reply to that Norwich prat this morning, you are becoming a top poster.
 




Mr Burns

Mr Burns

New member
Aug 25, 2003
5,915
Springfield
KneeOn said:
You are putting strength above skill. That's what this boils down to.
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No its not. I wouldn't put strength above skill at all. You seem to have this fixed into your mind about big nasty players ruining English football. But on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put Barnes strength at 1. If Barnes could toughen up, he'd be an assist for any club. But without that, I doubt if he could ever get it, he's not good enough, despite being the second top scorer at s club, who for most of the season have been taking the piss out of oppoents.

If we go up this season, and become a mid table side in the Championship next season (which is probably where we will end up), AShley Barnes' lack of bottle will stand out to a lot more on here like a sore thumb. He wont get so many chances as he's had this season and wont score nearly as many goals, and those that only judge him on Stats will probaby start to share my view, because they won't pin their whole argument on him being second top scorer.
 


El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,713
Pattknull med Haksprut
Mr Burns said:
No its not. I wouldn't put strength above skill at all. You seem to have this fixed into your mind about big nasty players ruining English football. But on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put Barnes strength at 1. If Barnes could toughen up, he'd be an assist for any club. But without that, I doubt if he could ever get it, he's not good enough, despite being the second top scorer at s club, who for most of the season have been taking the piss out of oppoents.

If we go up this season, and become a mid table side in the Championship next season (which is probably where we will end up), AShley Barnes' lack of bottle will stand out to a lot more on here like a sore thumb. He wont get so many chances as he's had this season and wont score nearly as many goals, and those that only judge him on Stats will probaby start to share my view, because they won't pin their whole argument on him being second top scorer.
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But when you say 'Not good enough' what exactly do you mean?

As a squad player in League 1 he is good enough, and his goals and contribution HAVE made a difference this season, Plymouth and Exeter away being two examples. It's all very well saying other strikers would have scored them instead, but which strikers? Holroyd, Sandaza, Hart, Baz? Name names Mr B.

For the money we paid (£80,000) he has done a good job, If we had paid ten times that amount I would have perhaps expected more, but we're not the Barcelona of League 1.
 




K

KneeOn

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2009
4,695
brightonrock said:
The abuse of Barnes is pathetic. You know there are, actually, different types of striker. The Davies/Drogba/Berbatov type player who hold it up, wins it in the air and is strong, putting himself about. Then there are more lightweight players, who rely on electric pace, fantastic technique or good positional play combined with anticipation. Michael Owen for example. Or even dare I say it, Leon Knight? Leon wasn't going to shoulder a centre half off the ball but he got in the right places and he scored the goals to take us up. Barnes is this player. He's not as physical as Murray, but he gets into fantastic positions and he reads the game well. Technically, he is decent without being brilliant - but the clinical finishing comes with experience, which right now he doesn't have that much of. The important thing is he's young, he has plenty of time to improve that. But the instinct of a striker is something that can't be taught. You can do weights in the gym to toughen up, or practice shooting to get the technique perfect. But Barnes has instinct, and I'd take a 21y/o with instinct and 10 goals at the half way stage of the season any day.

Ignore the stats? No, because they tell the whole story, in black and white, beyond prejudice against a certain player because you don't rate him. 10 goals, at the half way stage. On for 20 goals on current form. In the same way we're top of the league, at the half way stage. Barnes can bitch and moan, roll about, get bundled off the ball and duck out of tackles as much as he wants, if he continues to make contributions in terms of goals. People say strikers are judged on goals. He is scoring them. So shut up.
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This.

Barnes - scores goals by runs, pace and darting about - not by strength, power and grinding games out against big defenders
Wood - a player who uses his physical presence to score and get about - not one who has got the same "class" or "tartyness" as Barnes, a whole different player and the total opposite to Barnes
Sandaza (since he's been mentioned) - the balance between Barnes and Wood, he's going to get him self about, and has an eye for goal but can't beat players with skill, nor act as a real target man. A strong, instinct driven attacker - not a Barnes but not a wood
Murray - a player who threats in the air, possesses a fair amount of pace, a good knack for goal and able still put himself about more than Barnes or Sandaza but not as much as Wood. Fits as a partner to any, able to change his game to fit the physical game of Wood, the goal poacher game of Sandaza or the darting pacey non-physical game of Barnes.

He compliments and is complimented brilliantly by all of our strikers and now he's got his head sorted and his constancy sorted, we've got one of the most versatile players in the league - Murray that is, not Barnes.
 
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K

KneeOn

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2009
4,695
Mr Burns said:
No its not. I wouldn't put strength above skill at all. You seem to have this fixed into your mind about big nasty players ruining English football. But on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put Barnes strength at 1. If Barnes could toughen up, he'd be an assist for any club. But without that, I doubt if he could ever get it, he's not good enough, despite being the second top scorer at s club, who for most of the season have been taking the piss out of oppoents.

If we go up this season, and become a mid table side in the Championship next season (which is probably where we will end up), AShley Barnes' lack of bottle will stand out to a lot more on here like a sore thumb. He wont get so many chances as he's had this season and wont score nearly as many goals, and those that only judge him on Stats will probaby start to share my view, because they won't pin their whole argument on him being second top scorer.
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No, but Murrays "balls" (and Barnes's "lack of") being the reason Barnes won't make it is utter fuckwittery.

Barnes has had f*** ALL to do with the fact we as a SQUAD, not just a team of 11 men, have just taken the piss out of other teams. Because he has no balls
 






Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,221
One Legged Striker said:
Many people are sticking up for Barnes, which is cool everyone has the own opinion, could you please tell me what his attributes are?
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Look, I'm sorry Chris, we sympathise with your tiny head, we find it funny that you run around aimlessly pointing at the ground and failed to score against Moulsecoomb or indeed anybody else on multiple occasions. But please, enough is enough, piss orf back to Stevenage, or retrain as a geography teacher or something. You've nothing to contribute here :shrug:
 


S

SeagullRic

New member
Jan 13, 2008
1,399
brighton
Thanks, but I think I'll trust the opinion of Gustavo Augusto Poyet Dominquez on this one, rather than a man sitting behind his keyboard pretending he's Terry Venables. Barnes has clearly contributed hugely to this campaign, and whilst I think it was an error to omit Murray yesterday, it doesn't justify this sort of unfair and frankly pathetic abuse.
 


S

SeagullRic

New member
Jan 13, 2008
1,399
brighton
One Legged Striker said:
Many people are sticking up for Barnes, which is cool everyone has the own opinion, could you please tell me what his attributes are?
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Good finishing, reasonably nippy, fits in with our style of play. Also, this argument that "anyone could have scored those goals playing in his position" is utterly ridiculous, anyone who's played the game to a decent level knows that that's simply not true.
 




theonesmith

theonesmith

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2008
2,331
Mr Burns said:
Before you say, oh another thread about Barnes, than don't read or post in it.
Before you quote stats, don't. Stick to the stat filled PC Manager games

But I thought earlier in the season that Barnes was not up to wearing the stripes, and after watching him numerous times, yesterdays performance at Bournemouth proved to me that he is out of his depth, and is never going to be the half decent striker we hope he will become, unless he toughens up and grows a pair of bollocks.

Strikers, like central defenders need to be able to take a whack and dish one out, otherwise they won't make it in 99% of cases. Look at Al Abd. He aint performing like he is because of his skill. He wins the battle with most strikers in the first ten minutes of a game. Barnes yesterday was a complete waste of space and was very lucky not to leave the ground in an Ambulance. Just compare him to Murray. Nearly every time Murray goes up for a header, he wins it. Even when he completely missed a flick on yesterday, the defenders marking him flicked it on for him. They are so worried about Murray they make mistakes. When Barnes goes up for a header, its half hearted, going through the motions. He hardly ever wins any, and all you see from him is a cowardly pulling in of the shoulder and ducking his head out of the way. Its the same with tackles, he dangles a leg, and never makes a hard challenge. He must be a center half's dream too play against. When the Bournemouth center half's saw the team yesterday, they must have been pissing themselves laughing. Instead of having Murray who was going to be a danger all afternoon, they had to put up with Barnes, who's only danger to them was going to be getting a headache from all his whining. Refs are never going to give Barnes a 50/50 decision, because they can see the way he plays. He always looking to get out of the way and go down before the balls near him. BE honest, how many of think of Barnes, and see a picture in your mind of him sitting on his arse, arms out by his side with a look of disbelief on his face because he didn't get a free kick?

He was so lucky yesterday when he was on the receiving end of that second half crunching tackle, that his leg wasn't snapped in two. The first thing you teach a player, is never pull out of a tackle, or never just dangle your leg at a tackle, as you are a lot more in danger of getting seriously injured, then if you tackle hard yourself. When he got hit, I honestly though he'd broke his leg, and if he carries on like that it wont belong before a career ending injury comes along.

The boy is just too lightweight for pro football, and all the time he has a hole in his arse he wont make it. He'll find his level in the conference within a couple of years. Unless of course he learns to toughen up, but in most cases you cannot teach someone bottle, you either have bottle or you don't. You can get away with being and playing like a tart in some positions, but not as a striker. I think his only hope to go and do a bit of UFC training and learn to overcome his weakness and tartness, and learn how to take a whack.

In addition to his weak challenging at headers and that near leg breaking tackle, did you notice that when he an Murray& Barnes broke yesterday and Murray squared it, Barnes went hiding behind the defender. Murray squared it, and Barnes was nowhere. If he had done as he was meant to do and get in front of the defender, he would have either got a shot and probably scored, or got fouled and got a penalty. Either way he'd have got a whack, so that probably why he went and hid behind the defender, where he was nice and safe. The only way we would have scored there was an own goal, or if the defender fluffed it. But, no he'll wait for the unchallenged chances too add to his goal tally.

Now before people quote his stats, I think any other striker at the club could match these or better his goal tally given the game time and position Barnes has had this season. I even think if you got an old pro like John Byrne, he'd have easily matched Barnes tally, even without playing or training for 10 years. What I'm saying is, even through Barnes is the second highest scorer, any striker given Barnes' chances would easily match it. As a team we have been creating so much, we could have doubled our goal tally with the right striker this season.

You've just gotta take a look at the amount of chances Barnes as missed, most of which, I think is down to his bottle. I haven't looked, but I bet a lot of Barnes goals have been from unchallenged shots. No doubt he can strike a good shot when given time, and if football was a non contact sport, he'd be one of the best, but its not, and he's not.

I still see Murray just as much as a provider than a scorer if not more the provider, and I think the way the game turned at Bournemouth when he come on yesterday proves it. He'll chase things down, get stuck it and create chances of others, and cause defences problems, whereas Barnes isn't gong to cause any defence problems. I bet if you went back to yesterdays game, Barnes took a whack and threats from a defender early on, and after that he was shit scared of getting involved, and until he can learn to toughen up a bit, his only hope is to become a winger or he will fade away, and if he doesn't learn to toughen up then I hope he fades away sooner rather than later, because without a player like Murray in the side, he is a waste of space, and if I was a player of Murrays ability, and got dropped for Ashley Barnes yesterday, I'd tell Gus where to stick his new contract.... (although obviously in a nice way because of Gus' god like status, I wouldn't be rude too him at it!!)
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First, stats are often used in debates as they allow one to support one's argument. Otherwise you end up with a pure flurry of opinion, especially when qualitative examples also are not provided. Which is fine- but not great for putting forward a strong argument.

Elsewhere in this thread you comment that he would have 30 goals by now if he had the "bollocks" you frequently mention. You seem to be forgetting that he is a squad player, a striker we bought for 50k, plying his trade for a tight-budget league one side. Who would you buy, for 50k, who would do a better job than he for this club? As the figures are exceptionally important- we'd all like a top quality striker, but for some reason they prefer the prestige and money of higher leagues.

I must also make it clear that strengthening him isn't necessarily the way to go.. It is ONE way of dealing with centre backs, but so is higher pace and experience within the game- experience that at 19 he is still learning. All in all, a poor argument and pop at a player who has significantly contributed to our season thus far.

3/10 as they go..
 


S

samtheseagull

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
1,599
Mr Burns said:
No its not. I wouldn't put strength above skill at all. You seem to have this fixed into your mind about big nasty players ruining English football. But on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put Barnes strength at 1. If Barnes could toughen up, he'd be an assist for any club. But without that, I doubt if he could ever get it, he's not good enough, despite being the second top scorer at s club, who for most of the season have been taking the piss out of oppoents.

If we go up this season, and become a mid table side in the Championship next season (which is probably where we will end up), AShley Barnes' lack of bottle will stand out to a lot more on here like a sore thumb. He wont get so many chances as he's had this season and wont score nearly as many goals, and those that only judge him on Stats will probaby start to share my view, because they won't pin their whole argument on him being second top scorer.
Click to expand...

haha you f***ing twat. barnes strength at 1? either you are
1- not a brighton fan
2- you havent ever seen barnes play
3- a dickhead
4- is fishing
 








upthealbion1970

upthealbion1970

bring on the trumpets....
NSC Patron
Jan 22, 2009
8,865
Woodingdean
This critique of barnes is as laughable as our new found arrogance.

If we are "not allowed to refer to stats" then what is the point of the season - the biggest stat of all is who gets the most points Shirley?

The bloke who has played the professional game at the highest level in this country who happens to manage our team thinks barnes is good enough to play for us and I think I will take his view over a keyboard warrior who has an agenda tbh. Try using some of this negative energy in a more positive manner, it may actually do some good.
 








theonesmith

theonesmith

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2008
2,331
upthealbion1970 said:
This critique of barnes is as laughable as our new found arrogance.

If we are "not allowed to refer to stats" then what is the point of the season - the biggest stat of all is who gets the most points Shirley?

The bloke who has played the professional game at the highest level in this country who happens to manage our team thinks barnes is good enough to play for us and I think I will take his view over a keyboard warrior who has an agenda tbh. Try using some of this negative energy in a more positive manner, it may actually do some good.
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Seems to have disappeared now anyway..
 


JBizzle

JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
5,826
Seaford
"Barnes isn't good enough" eh?

Simple answer: GUS RATES HIM!

Therefore, I, and no doubt Ash, will not give a shit what anyone else thinks. Nomatter how wrong "we" are.
 


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