Official Running Thread

Guinness Boy · Nov 17, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Pre ‘map apps’ and satnavs this used to happen all the time around here. Sunday mornings with people carrying several young lads in their cars looking for obscure football pitches was a particularly regular occurrence.........

For some of the parents at Junior's club it's still a regular occurrence, or at least it was pre-lockdown 2 :lolol:

You've probably been interrupted by Mrs GB at some point as well as she seems to take Sat Nav as a sort of loose guide rather than gospel. "Well, I know it said turn right but I don't think it actually is that way....."

I need to get my mojo back. At several kilos overweight and with no races coming up I looked at that weather on Sunday and went "nah", instead watching the Grand Prix and consuming a large roast :facepalm:

Trying to talk myself into going out after work today.

Deleted member 2719 · Nov 17, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Any effect would be so small as to be irrelevant...........

As to how often, depends entirely on the session, purpose of it, how hard you want it to be, what systems you are trying to work etc. As a starting point for intervals (but by no means the only answer), a decent rule of thumb is keep the recoveries the same length of time as the efforts - ie if you're doing 1km repeats at say 5k pace, jog/walk 4 mins or so between each one. Aim to do all the hard intervals at the same pace.............

Easy runs would normally be at a consistent, slow pace - sometimes throw in a few 'pickups' (short bursts of up to 30s perhaps) to get the legs loosened with over-taxing other systems. On an easy run, though, if you fancy a short walk break then have one - there aren't any rules

Excellent coach,

I can see some bursts coming in very soon!

I have never done and walking/jogging between intervals, I general hover around for a minute or so, then off I go again, I assume this is to just stay loose?

nwgull · Nov 17, 2020

Mouldy Boots said:
Excellent coach,

I can see some bursts coming in very soon!

I have never done and walking/jogging between intervals, I general hover around for a minute or so, then off I go again, I assume this is to just stay loose?

No, it all counts towards the training effect. Recovery pace shouldn't necessarily be 'easy'; it should just be enough that you can get your breathing back to what it is for your normal running pace, and then you're ready to do another burst of effort.

Deleted member 2719 · Nov 17, 2020

nwgull said:
No, it all counts towards the training effect. Recovery pace shouldn't necessarily be 'easy'; it should just be enough that you can get your breathing back to what it is for your normal running pace, and then you're ready to do another burst of effort.

Got it thanks.

So you are saying I have been taking it to easy then! :lolol:

Garry Nelson's teacher · Nov 17, 2020

Still ploughing a furrow up and down Worthing prom. 3 miles in 23.07 half of which was into a beast of a wind.

nwgull · Nov 17, 2020

Mouldy Boots said:
Got it thanks.

So you are saying I have been taking it to easy then!

Unfortunately! Unless you have been pushing it so hard in an effort that you're literally collapsing, then carry on running, albeit at a much slower pace but still blowing out of your arse. Loads of scientific research has gone in to fitness training over the years, but it's never been able to bypass to the old 'no pain; no gain' principle.

Milano · Nov 17, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Burgess Hill Runners do a fair amount of off-road stuff, and away from the formal club sessions there are plenty of informal groups of members that meet up. Your pace is easily (at worst) ‘mid pack’ for BHR so I wouldn’t worry about that - no-one ever gets left behind anyway (most runs simply have regular turn back points so the faster runners just do a bit more).

You can try the club out for a few sessions before joining - details on their website

http://www.bhrunners.co.uk

Also worth joining the ‘mid sussex running community’ page on facebook which has 500+ members. A few local groups are active on there, and you could always post asking for suggestions.

Always happy to meet up for a trot if you want......let me know (similar pace)

Thanks, really appreciated, I’ll pm you.

dazzer6666 · Nov 17, 2020

nwgull said:
No, it all counts towards the training effect. Recovery pace shouldn't necessarily be 'easy'; it should just be enough that you can get your breathing back to what it is for your normal running pace, and then you're ready to do another burst of effort.

Sometimes....depends on the level of effort....if you're doing, for example 800m repeats as part of aa Yasso session, then you'd normally use the recovery to bring breathing and HR right back down (or it's a length during which you'd expect to almost fully recover) - not just to running place. Equally, in some sessions the recovery is barely that (usually the ones that make me puke)

Biggest, biggest criticism I get from the guy who writes my plan is that I run my easy runs too fast. Kipchoge does his recovery runs at no faster than 40 mins for 10k - sounds fast, but take into account his 'race' pace for 10k - at marathon distance - is under 30 mins you can see the kind of differential. Do the fast runs faster and the slow runs slower

Albion Robster · Nov 17, 2020

To get myself through lockdown, I’ve set myself a challenge - 10 x 10, which comprises of running 10k everyday for consecutive 10 days.
Only 2 days in and feeling the aches already...!! Will need to have some really slow easy paced recovery runs.

Deleted member 2719 · Nov 17, 2020

Albion Robster said:
To get myself through lockdown, I’ve set myself a challenge - 10 x 10, which comprises of running 10k everyday for consecutive 10 days.
Only 2 days in and feeling the aches already...!! Will need to have some really slow easy paced recovery runs.

I am not trying to keep you accountable, but keep us up to date. :wink:

Good luck.

Napper · Nov 17, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Sometimes....depends on the level of effort....if you're doing, for example 800m repeats as part of aa Yasso session, then you'd normally use the recovery to bring breathing and HR right back down (or it's a length during which you'd expect to almost fully recover) - not just to running place. Equally, in some sessions the recovery is barely that (usually the ones that make me puke)

Biggest, biggest criticism I get from the guy who writes my plan is that I run my easy runs too fast. Kipchoge does his recovery runs at no faster than 40 mins for 10k - sounds fast, but take into account his 'race' pace for 10k - at marathon distance - is under 30 mins you can see the kind of differential. Do the fast runs faster and the slow runs slower

so in layman's terms, instead of going for PBs constantly and slowing down the runs and making them longer. How often would you recommended putting in a PB attempt for the shoters and over what period of time would the slower longer runs pay dividends in times for the slower quicker ones.

Hard to answer I know but wonder if can shed any light on it from personal experience

nwgull · Nov 17, 2020

Napper said:
so in layman's terms, instead of going for PBs constantly and slowing down the runs and making them longer. How often would you recommended putting in a PB attempt for the shoters and over what period of time would the slower longer runs pay dividends in times for the slower quicker ones.

Hard to answer I know but wonder if can shed any light on it from personal experience

I do an interval session twice a week where effort is full on. Other runs are of varying distance at what is generally a comfortable pace.

PBs are something to aim for in a race where your give yourself an easy week in the run up.

dazzer6666 · Nov 17, 2020

nwgull said:
I do an interval session twice a week where effort is full on. Other runs are of varying distance at what is generally a comfortable pace.

PBs are something to aim for in a race where your give yourself an easy week in the run up.

Pretty much this........another ‘rule of thumb’ is do approx 80% of your weekly mileage ‘easy’ and 20% at effort (obviously can be varied depending on what you are aiming for, where you are in your training block etc) but it’s a good guide.

To give a ‘real’ example, I did about 75 mins today in total which was an ‘effort’ day (intervals) but even then only half of it was effort and the other half recovery walk/jog, warm up and cool down. I’ll have another hard session later in the week (after at least one easy day) so total hard effort for the week will be maybe 90 mins out of c6 hours running. That’s a typical week.

Even those with programs are struggling a bit at the moment with so few having events to aim for - normally any coached plan would have regular events as points to focus on, even if not ‘A’ races......

Normal Rob · Nov 18, 2020

firstly a huge thanks to those who gave some great advice when i first posted on this thread a couple of months back. I listened and it's paid dividends.

I had an issue a few weeks ago caused by pushing myself too far in old running shoes. The first problem to note was a calf strain, followed by extreme pain in my outer left foot a day or so later. It took 10 days of no activity to get over it, during which time, as advised, I went to a specialist running shop for proper analysis and advice. I ended up forking out £125 for a pair of Hoka Arahi 4 trainers. A few runs later I've just achieved my furthest run ever. I'm never going to win awards for speed, but I don't care!

Artie Fufkin · Nov 18, 2020

Albion Robster said:
To get myself through lockdown, I’ve set myself a challenge - 10 x 10, which comprises of running 10k everyday for consecutive 10 days.
Only 2 days in and feeling the aches already...!! Will need to have some really slow easy paced recovery runs.

Great stuff [MENTION=592]Albion Robster[/MENTION] ! Running 10k every day for 10 days is a brilliant effort. Take it easy navigating the daily volume and happy running!

Artie Fufkin · Nov 18, 2020

dazzer6666 said:
Pretty much this........another ‘rule of thumb’ is do approx 80% of your weekly mileage ‘easy’ and 20% at effort (obviously can be varied depending on what you are aiming for, where you are in your training block etc) but it’s a good guide.

To give a ‘real’ example, I did about 75 mins today in total which was an ‘effort’ day (intervals) but even then only half of it was effort and the other half recovery walk/jog, warm up and cool down. I’ll have another hard session later in the week (after at least one easy day) so total hard effort for the week will be maybe 90 mins out of c6 hours running. That’s a typical week.

Even those with programs are struggling a bit at the moment with so few having events to aim for - normally any coached plan would have regular events as points to focus on, even if not ‘A’ races......

Wise words from dazzer once again!

I'm a big believer that the majority of our time running should be at an easy comfortable effort so that we can try to maintain some decent consistency to reap a ton of aerobic benefits and at the same time do our best to avoid the risk of injury as it's the consistent injury-free time spent running that will lead to improvements.

This is a pretty useful article about "working the ends" of the spectrum from Podium Runner (an excellent training site).

https://www.podiumrunner.com/training/work-the-ends-to-build-your-training-foundation-higher/

A few snippet highlights:

Many runners think of training as practice, spending a lot of their time at or close to their goal race pace. They’re continually testing their fitness or simply fall into running as fast as they comfortably can on any given day. Training this way, however, simply refines the abilities you have now. You can make incremental improvements with race-pace training, but you can’t create big transformations in your running ability.

Top runners, in contrast, view most of their training as conditioning — raising their bodies’ capacity for endurance and speed...to build the foundation that will lift them to a new level and allow them to handle the more specific training.

The fundamental task for every distance runner is to first build their aerobic endurance.

“You need to build an aerobic base,” says Brad Hudson, elite coach and author of Run Faster. To do that, he says, requires, “Just running and running more.”

You can’t run more if you’re going too fast, however, or you’ll get hurt. Slowing down your pace is necessary to go longer. To build your aerobic system, increase volume instead of speed.

Besides the risk of injury, training too fast can sabotage your aerobic gains.

Artie Fufkin · Nov 18, 2020

Normal Rob said:
firstly a huge thanks to those who gave some great advice when i first posted on this thread a couple of months back. I listened and it's paid dividends.

I had an issue a few weeks ago caused by pushing myself too far in old running shoes. The first problem to note was a calf strain, followed by extreme pain in my outer left foot a day or so later. It took 10 days of no activity to get over it, during which time, as advised, I went to a specialist running shop for proper analysis and advice. I ended up forking out £125 for a pair of Hoka Arahi 4 trainers. A few runs later I've just achieved my furthest run ever. I'm never going to win awards for speed, but I don't care!

View attachment 130537

Nice work [MENTION=323]Normal Rob[/MENTION] ! :thumbsup:

dazzer6666 · Nov 18, 2020

Normal Rob said:
firstly a huge thanks to those who gave some great advice when i first posted on this thread a couple of months back. I listened and it's paid dividends.

I had an issue a few weeks ago caused by pushing myself too far in old running shoes. The first problem to note was a calf strain, followed by extreme pain in my outer left foot a day or so later. It took 10 days of no activity to get over it, during which time, as advised, I went to a specialist running shop for proper analysis and advice. I ended up forking out £125 for a pair of Hoka Arahi 4 trainers. A few runs later I've just achieved my furthest run ever. I'm never going to win awards for speed, but I don't care!

View attachment 130537

Great stuff. Massive Hoka fan here..............really like them. :thumbsup:

Cecil · Nov 18, 2020

Normal Rob said:
firstly a huge thanks to those who gave some great advice when i first posted on this thread a couple of months back. I listened and it's paid dividends.

I had an issue a few weeks ago caused by pushing myself too far in old running shoes. The first problem to note was a calf strain, followed by extreme pain in my outer left foot a day or so later. It took 10 days of no activity to get over it, during which time, as advised, I went to a specialist running shop for proper analysis and advice. I ended up forking out £125 for a pair of Hoka Arahi 4 trainers. A few runs later I've just achieved my furthest run ever. I'm never going to win awards for speed, but I don't care!

View attachment 130537

Well done fella :clap2:

Greg Bobkin · Nov 19, 2020

Great running chaps – and nice to see a bit of a resurgence of the thread while we're still (largely) not able to race.

Nothing really of note to report from my side – still running every day and working towards a '300km in a month' target for November. It'll be close, but I'm determined to get there. With 11 days left, I've got 118km (73.3 miles to go)

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