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I don't even think that's a sum that can be worked out with any level of authority. I believe there's a net economic benefit but again, like much of the discourse on both sides of this debate it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the level of detail one needs to make a judgment on the...

Not a vote against low taxes. A vote against unfunded, open border migration. For many people. It wasn't that hard to see the flaws in the Cameron argument and that's coming from someone who voted to remain. I don't believe that people voted to have higher taxes but I do believe that they...

Not wishing to poo-poo it but £140m seems a little light. It's less than two Pogba's!

Sure. It was a long time coming. Your last sentence is a really excellent way of putting it. The $64,000 question, is what will replace it? And will that be any better? And that's all for another time, another thread.

Yeah the same as all those passports that were found in and around the Paris attacks. You could speculate anything regarding the motive for the document being there if you try hard enough. It's a lead at the moment, nothing more.

We might need to do both. Without doubt as well as areas that have benefited from economic migration to this country, there are areas where public service provision has become far more difficult as a result of it. Even if the net result is an economic benefit for the country as a whole there...

You won't hear any arguments from this poster there.

And the people who believe you can have low tax and good public services. And until we snap out of this counter-intuitive belief, it'll be one group after another demonised because the sums don't add up. It's immigrants now, when that isn't the golden bullet, it'll be treating fat people on the...

Thanks for that. Did you hear what Farage was saying RE Cox? I'm used to his ridiculousness but this sounded like he'd been taking notes from his time with the President Elect. Totally over the top.

Website now. Ceased to be a newspaper some time ago. Future revenues increasingly depend on clickbait.

"This morning, on LBC radio, former UKIP leader Nigel Farage launched an outrageous attack on us, on Brendan Cox, husband of murdered MP Jo Cox, and by association on everyone who believes in HOPE not hate. Our lawyer has just sent Farage a letter demanding he retracts and publicly apologises or...

First three minutes are pretty standard fare. The last 90 seconds or so of that is a little bizarre. Not quite sure what got Ferrari's tongue, perhaps he was in shock at the guff Farage was spouting about Brendon Cox. But yeah. This was the sort of thing I was talking about.

See. It can work out.

Not much, though I'm not the first person to mention it here, just I thought I'd heard the short term pain, long term gain argument deployed somewhere else fairly recently.

That's exactly the point I'm making. I didn't link anything. I merely pointed out that some did and it upset Nige and his legion of supporters.

I agree that the short term pain, long term gain argument is ridiculous. Wasn't that what a lot of people were saying in favour of Brexit?

Nigel is being slated a) Whether he's right or not, making his point in the immediate aftermath of the attack is seen by many as crass and tasteless. b) Six months ago, he was pictured under a racist poster that he advocated, the latest in a long line of increasingly hysterical outpourings...