I'm just trying to help you as you keep feeding that poster and yet seemingly don't understand why.Right
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[Politics] Donald Trump 2024
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,905
- Thread starter
- #2,742
Environmental protection
- Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement - Without the United States, the rest of the world had a harder time meeting the Paris Agreement’s goal of preventing global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. And the United States missed out on the creation of more jobs and economic growth as well as reduced business risks. While Covid and the renewables market blunted the impact in terms of emissions, Trump’s aggressive rolling back of environmental protection policies could still have lasting impact.
Relations with Iran -
- President Trump withdrew the United States from the deal in 2018, claiming it failed to curtail Iran’s missile program and regional influence. Iran began ignoring limitations on its nuclear program a year later. This has left the US isolated with no viable option for monitoring Iran’s programme of enrichment - Iran is closer to developing nuclear weapons now than it ever was and the reintroduction of harsh sanctions that were lifted when the JPCOA was agreed has inflammed tensions even further.
Any viable Peace Plan between Israel and Palestine
- The proposal missed a signature feature of every prior peace plan: a path to a viable Palestinian state. It proposed dividing up the Palestinian territories and surrounding them by Israel, giving Israel total control over Palestinian security, handed a third of the West Bank over to Israel and moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem (an attempt to make that hotly contested city the de facto capital of Israel) - Trump‘s ‘Peace Plan’ destroyed any remaining hope that Israel will settle for the deal that peace processors have envisioned for a quarter century. Trump also colluded with Netanyahu, a far right wing Political leader, such that they both supported each other’s leadership, right wing policy positions/agendas, despite both being on corruption charges and likely facing criminal sanctions should they be voted out of power.
- Trump’s actions weakened Ukraine, divided NATO, emboldened Putin and helped get us to where we are today. And even with Trump no longer in office, his impact lives on in the form of Putin-friendly commentary in right wing media and from some Republican lawmakers. Within weeks, of Russia annexing Crimea (2014) Trump praised Putin and predicted that “the rest of Ukraine will fall … fairly quickly.” Echoing Kremlin propaganda, Trump said in a tv interview that the Crimean people “would rather be with Russia,” a position he pushed in private. One of his 2016 campaign aides falsely claimed that “Russia did not seize Crimea.”. Trump extorted Ukraine in 2019 to bolster his 2020 election campaign in an attempt to coerce Ukraine to provide ’dirt’ on Joe and Hunter Biden and evidence came to light of widespread corruption.
U.S. Exits Paris Climate Accord after Trump Stalls Global Warming Action for Four Years
State-level efforts and a growing renewables market have mitigated federal emissions policy rollbacks—but Trump’s climate impact could be long-lasting
What Is the Iran Nuclear Deal?
The United States’ withdrawal from the arms control agreement has heightened tensions and left the remaining signatories scrambling to keep the deal alive.
www.cfr.org
Trump’s rejection of Paris Agreement is a call to action and resolve for us all
"U.S. President Donald Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement on climate change puts the United States at odds not just with the international community, but with overwhelming scientific evidence and the publicly expressed wishes of hundreds of American companies, from Apple to Exxon. U.S...
Trump’s Israel-Palestine "peace plan" is a con
The proposal destroys the prospects for any real deal and brings Israel meaningfully closer to "apartheid."
www.vox.com
Here are the reasons for Trump's economic war with China
On Friday the US president ‘hereby ordered’ companies to halt business with China, among other attacks – how did we get here?
www.theguardian.com
Last edited:
A restrained response (in terms of length) seeing that the question could easily warrant a book sized response!Environmental protection
- Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement - Without the United States, the rest of the world had a harder time meeting the Paris Agreement’s goal of preventing global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. And the United States missed out on the creation of more jobs and economic growth as well as reduced business risks. While Covid and the renewables market blunted the impact in terms of emissions, Trump’s aggressive rolling back of environmental protection policies could still have lasting impact.
Relations with Iran -
- President Trump withdrew the United States from the deal in 2018, claiming it failed to curtail Iran’s missile program and regional influence. Iran began ignoring limitations on its nuclear program a year later. This has left the US isolated with no viable option for monitoring Iran’s programme of enrichment - Iran is closer to developing nuclear weapons now than it ever was and the reintroduction of harsh sanctions that were lifted when the JPCOA was agreed has inflammed tensions even further.
Any viable Peace Plan between Israel and Palestine
Worsened Security in Europe
- The proposal missed a signature feature of every prior peace plan: a path to a viable Palestinian state. It proposed dividing up the Palestinian territories and surrounding them by Israel, giving Israel total control over Palestinian security, handed a third of the West Bank over to Israel and moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem (an attempt to make that hotly contested city the de facto capital of Israel) - Trump‘s ‘Peace Plan’ destroyed any remaining hope that Israel will settle for the deal that peace processors have envisioned for a quarter century. Trump also colluded with Netanyahu, a far right wing Political leader, such that they both supported each other’s leadership, right wing policy positions/agendas, despite both being on corruption charges and likely facing criminal sanctions should they be voted out of power.
- Trump’s actions weakened Ukraine, divided NATO, emboldened Putin and helped get us to where we are today. And even with Trump no longer in office, his impact lives on in the form of Putin-friendly commentary in right wing media and from some Republican lawmakers. Within weeks, of Russia annexing Crimea (2014) Trump praised Putin and predicted that “the rest of Ukraine will fall … fairly quickly.” Echoing Kremlin propaganda, Trump said in a tv interview that the Crimean people “would rather be with Russia,” a position he pushed in private. One of his 2016 campaign aides falsely claimed that “Russia did not seize Crimea.”. Trump extorted Ukraine in 2019 to bolster his 2020 election campaign in an attempt to coerce Ukraine to provide ’dirt’ on Joe and Hunter Biden and evidence came to light of widespread corruption.
U.S. Exits Paris Climate Accord after Trump Stalls Global Warming Action for Four Years
State-level efforts and a growing renewables market have mitigated federal emissions policy rollbacks—but Trump’s climate impact could be long-lastingwww.scientificamerican.com
What Is the Iran Nuclear Deal?
The United States’ withdrawal from the arms control agreement has heightened tensions and left the remaining signatories scrambling to keep the deal alive.Trump’s rejection of Paris Agreement is a call to action and resolve for us all
"U.S. President Donald Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement on climate change puts the United States at odds not just with the international community, but with overwhelming scientific evidence and the publicly expressed wishes of hundreds of American companies, from Apple to Exxon. U.S...www.iisd.org
Trump’s Israel-Palestine "peace plan" is a con
The proposal destroys the prospects for any real deal and brings Israel meaningfully closer to "apartheid."Here are the reasons for Trump's economic war with China
On Friday the US president ‘hereby ordered’ companies to halt business with China, among other attacks – how did we get here?
chickens
Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
- Oct 12, 2022
- 1,875
Thanks Zeb, but while I accept that the meaning of words can evolve over time, and take on different meanings in certain settings, I don’t believe in allowing politicians who are effectively attempting to smear their opponents to completely redefine words and effectively get away with those smears.
The “when I said socialist, I meant someone with views different to my own” defence shall not stand.
You’ll note a complete absence of me describing @lasvegan as a fascist/nazi on here, and that’s because I don’t believe he’s either of those things. All I’m asking for is that we cut through the hyperbole and deal with the reality.
Biden, unpopular though he is, has genuinely overseen an effective tenure in Government. His policies may be designed to help America’s poorer families, but that does not make him or his policies socialist. Even most capitalists recognise that too much inequality stifles demand, that’s not a socialist thing.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,905
- Thread starter
- #2,745
Yes, I totally see what you are saying and I get that but my point is more of a general one.
I just wanted to highlight that Americans have redefined ‘socialism’ - there simply isn’t an homogeneous understanding of the term and it is more concrete than just ‘settings’ - maybe read the article I posted. Our ‘Clause 4’ understanding of ’socialism’ doesn’t even come into American discourse. Right wing American politicians as British ones, use ‘socialism’ as a general slur against any politician/party espousing left wing politics. The term ‘fascism’ has also been misappropriated as a derogatory term used by left wing ideologists to slur hard right politics. I’m just saying, these terms can be very undefined, redefined and unrefined in modern political debate and often have no relation to the root ideology from which they spring..
I did also note that you were called a ‘socialist’ in a deliberately derogatory manner by @lasvegan (for which he has admitted and qualified). Sorry if I didn’t recognise that insult to you in my response.
I’m merely pointing out that it is much easier to have a dialogue about political ideologies if both sides can at least have a common understanding on the fundamental terms being used - otherwise people simply end up shouting across a canyon and listening to their own echoes.
I think we are probably on the same page tbh.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,905
- Thread starter
- #2,746
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,132
This is a huge statement to make with no information to back it up.
Got to say I would need some convincing of this being true.
I think that suggesting 'everyone' can agree is a massive stretch. More like a small percentage of people would agree.
I agree about the slurs. And I find @lasvegan interesting. I can myself construct a defense of voting for Trump based on perceived personal benefit. If that's his position, fine. But I start to sigh when the slurs start to appear. For example, Lasvegan claiming the Democrats want a one party state. What rubbish!Yes, I totally see what you are saying and I get that but my point is more of a general one.
I just wanted to highlight that Americans have redefined ‘socialism’ - there simply isn’t an homogeneous understanding of the term and it is more concrete than just ‘settings’ - maybe read the article I posted. Our ‘Clause 4’ understanding of ’socialism’ doesn’t even come into American discourse. Right wing American politicians as British ones, use ‘socialism’ as a general slur against any politician/party espousing left wing politics. The term ‘fascism’ has also been misappropriated as a derogatory term used by left wing ideologists to slur hard right politics. I’m just saying, these terms can be very undefined, redefined and unrefined in modern political debate and often have no relation to the root ideology from which they spring..
I did also note that you were called a ‘socialist’ in a deliberately derogatory manner by @lasvegan (for which he has admitted and qualified). Sorry if I didn’t recognise that insult to you in my response.
I’m merely pointing out that it is much easier to have a dialogue about political ideologies if both sides can at least have a common understanding on the fundamental terms being used - otherwise people simply end up shouting across a canyon and listening to their own echoes.
I think we are probably on the same page tbh.
More lovely weather today on the Eastern side of blighty. Time to enjoy it
Esp from a supporter of the President who incited an attempted coup and who's stated aim is to pardon all those who took part (after he's pardoned himself first, of course)
I visited the website which is hawking the Trump endorsed bible and on the Frequently Asked Questions page one of those frequently asked questions is "What if my bible has sticky pages?".
The only reading material which is usually associated with sticky pages is used pornographic magazines which begs the question what dubious purpose those Trump devotees who are buying His bible are actually using it for?
godblesstheusabible.com
The only reading material which is usually associated with sticky pages is used pornographic magazines which begs the question what dubious purpose those Trump devotees who are buying His bible are actually using it for?
God Bless The USA Bible
This beautiful, unique, & easy to read Bible (KJV version) contains the chorus to the song on the inside cover, hand-written and signed by Lee Greenwood.
godblesstheusabible.com
US Seagull
Well-known member
Worth a read:
www.cleveland.com
Our Trump reporting upsets some readers, but there aren’t two sides to facts: Letter from the Editor
This is a tough column to write, because I don’t want to demean or insult those who write me in good faith. I’ve started it a half dozen times since November but turned to other topics each time because this needle hard to thread.
www.cleveland.com
As someone else noted, we are a bit off topic, but whilst we are here....
I wouldn't argue with you but I suppose it's a question of what we would call a Right of Centre socialist government.
I accept that many won't accept that any Conservative government can ever be considered socialist, whatever it does, but that's a matter of opinion.
Crawley Dingo
Political thread tourist.
- Mar 31, 2022
- 596
You first, why are you so invested in seeing a foreign presidential candidate removed by lawfare(Electoral interference.) when you don't live there?
I think @Zerberdi has answered that in post #2756 a couple of pages back where they listed many reasons why they didn't consider Trump was a good president for America or the World.
The highlighted bit is your subjective view, and unfair to include in one question - because if we try an answer the question as edited above, without removing the subjective bit - you could justifiably say that we had 'accepted' the lawfare point of view. Which I certainly haven't - and reading @Zeberdi 's posts - I don't think they have either.
Anyway - onto the football.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,905
- Thread starter
- #2,755
Because half my family live in the States - because his Jan 6 attempt at interrupting the peaceful transition of power was a threat to the liberal democratic Country they live in. Because they are Jewish and don’t want to continue living in a Country where the President of that Country dog whistles to neo-Nazis and White Supremacists.
For all the reasons I bullet-pointed over the page as @Bodian says a post that you didn’t read btw because you were more interested in instructing me how to write posts on NSC at the time iir.
Now you - answer my question- why are you so supportive of a foreign ex-President and so vested in him getting back into power?
I didn’t mean it to be derogatory, just calling it as I see it. People ARE socialist, communist, Marxist, authoritarian, totalitarian, or whatever you want to call it. It’s no more of a slur than calling me a capitalist.
So you find me interesting, yet sigh…a little condescending maybe?
Exclusive: Trump Media saved in 2022 by Russian-American under criminal investigation
Trump’s social media company went public relying partly on loans from trust managed by person of interest to prosecutors
www.theguardian.com
It's the slurs against Biden.
If you can stand resolutely behind your choice for Trump, using cold rational reasoning, there is no need to underpin it with slurs.
You make a mistake by changing the contest to 'who is the most corrupt' and 'who is the most disgusting'. That one is easy - its Trump
Stick with competence to deliver to you, personally, the greater advantage, or you invite me to question your otherwise perverse affection for the pussy grabber.
That's the thing.
I reckon I could be easily talked out of #TeamBiden, the problem being those doing the talking are pro Trump, which is where their entire argument falls down.
I reckon I could be easily talked out of #TeamBiden, the problem being those doing the talking are pro Trump, which is where their entire argument falls down.