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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



Jackthelad

Jackthelad

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2010
832
Eric the meek said:
This forum is over two years old, and contains 14,780 posts from a range of contributors, some of whom have Ukrainian wives and in-laws. Some of these relatives are living under Russian occupation.

The posts contain a huge range of information, theories, anecdotes, links to other platforms, military analysts, journalists, you name it. Some of them contain supporting evidence; some don't. All the regulars on here have been on here long enough, and know each other well enough, to trust each other not to post baseless theories.

What particular theory are you referring to? Much of the information on here is date-driven, so if you know when the event occurred, then you can search comments on that date and the days following it.

Hope this helps.
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The conversation at the moment is on the Islamist terrorist attack on Russia where lots of innocent people have died. I was interested if there is any evidence for conspiracy theories about that attack.
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,343
Jackthelad said:
The conversation at the moment is on the Islamist terrorist attack on Russia where lots of innocent people have died. I was interested if there is any evidence for conspiracy theories about that attack.
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I refer you back to my previous post. Why not do your own research? If you did, you might find that the most prolific authors of conspiracy theories are sitting in the Kremlin.

The terrorist attack happened on Friday at 4:58pm our time. Begin at comment #14,546. Fill your boots.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
24,543
West is BEST
Russia is a perfectly plausible target for Middle Eastern terrorists. As the Soviet Union they harassed and tortured the Islamic people of that part of the world for decades in an attempt to convert them to a Marxist regime.

However, I’d be very surprised if Putin wasn’t complicit if only by deliberately failing to act.

And those chaps in the blue? Not a coincidence.
 
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R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,664
Wiltshire
The Clamp said:
Russia is a perfectly plausible target for Middle Eastern terrorists. As the Soviet Union the harassed and tortured the Islamic people of that part of the world in an attempt to convert them to a Marxist regime.

However, I’d be very surprised if Putin wasn’t complicit if only by deliberately failing to act.

And those chaps in the blue? Not a coincidence.
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Exactly. And I'm still struggling to figure out the role of the 'chaps in blue' while they were relaxing in that concert hall.
"We should close the doors"... was that their role...🤔.
 






The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
24,543
West is BEST


Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,343
The Clamp said:
Can’t feel too sorry for them, if I’m honest.

And I know that’s wrong for so many reasons.
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I understand.

Edit: just think of the fear stalking the Kremlin. People who really, really, don't want to be there, but cannot resign. If the 'truth' of a false flag (if indeed it is the truth), gets out, the political classes will be scrambling to blame each other to save their skins.
 
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A1X

A1X

Well-known member
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Sep 1, 2017
17,877
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Eric the meek said:
Congratulations Ukraine.

Russia is now a net importer of refined oil products, importing from Belarus. Talks were difficult apparently, as Belarus prioritises its fuel exports to international markets.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Also, take a look at this:

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www.reuters.com
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I’m quite surprised the Russians are actually buying it TBH, they seem more in the market for just taking stuff they want that’s not theirs
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,343
raymondo said:
It's major stuff, I feel 👍
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Could be, but we just don't know.

As Russia pulls the shutters down, there is going to be a huge amount of economic news that they won't share, and we won't be aware of.
This is one of the few items that got out.

It's the speed with which it has happened, which is really interesting. Russia only banned exports of gasoline from 1 March.
 






R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,664
Wiltshire
peterward said:
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It's a very thought through piece, as we'd expect from the ISW...very interesting.
I'm surprised that Europe, and it's perceptions and fears(differ by country), and military capability didn't get a mention ... unless it's just assumed to be sucked along behind whatever the US decides, and that would very possibly have to change if Trump gets in.
 






peterward

peterward

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Nov 11, 2009
11,366
Eric the meek said:
Perhaps the best piece of analysis I have seen on the entire thread.

'That the war is unwinnable due to Russia's dominance is a Kremlin information operation.'

Think back to what Putin said a while back.
'Russia will never leave the occupied territories'.

Hmm.
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Right up until the Soviet Union imploded under the weight of its debt/mismanagement they projected false strength.

I agree its a very interesting take and without seeing this before, I had sort of alluded similar to the wife when she's has doubted that Ukraine could ever win back her city and/or all occupied territory back.

I have told her, before I can't personally see Ukraine sweeping the country militarily and putting all the Russians to the sword (though wouldnt mind if they did!), but if they can stay in the fight with the west's backing and much superior technology and finances then eventually the Russians with their biblical war machine costs will collapse imho.

That also says, based on @Eric the meek posts on Russia importing of fuel due refinery strikes and problems with banking oil monies that this is a major part of the war effort, that Ukraine must pursue this attack on Russian income as it feeds into the most likely way they can fully beat Russia. Not with guns, but with Russian collapse.

There's no true loyalty in Russia either Imho, its a crooked band of well enriched fellow travellers, if a financial tipping point is reached they'll all on turn on each other and Putin.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
peterward said:
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That matches the propaganda we see posted on forums 'Ukraine can't win so we might as well stop supplying them, it'll be better for them to lose now'.

I'm guessing these people are Russian sympathisers or shills, because I can't believe anyone can be that thick.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
Eric the meek said:
Think back to what Putin said a while back.
'Russia will never leave the occupied territories'.

Hmm.
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Yeah he also said the occupied territories were now a part of Russia, and that any attack on them would be an attack on Russia itself. Ukrained ignore Russia and carried on fighting, and have liberated some of the areas. So either Putin has given in on his lie, or actually Ukraine can take any part of Russia without any further consequences.
 
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Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,343
From today's Guardian:

'Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in her weekly press briefing that it’s “extremely hard to believe” that Islamic State would have had the capacity to launch the attack on a Moscow concert hall last Friday that killed at least 140 people.'

Extremely hard to believe? Even though they've had a massive terrorist attack, and were warned about it by the Americans?
Notice she doesn't say 'it wasn't ISIS'.

It is only extremely hard to believe if you are insufferably arrogant like her, and/or are ignorant and believe the Kremlin spin that Russia is invincible, impregnable.
If you don't believe the Kremlin spin, then it isn't hard to believe at all.

Who is in the frame : result for Russia.

ISIS : scary, it's in Moscow, and Russia and Putin are weak.
Ukraine : join up and fight the enemy.
West/US : we were right about them all along.
Russian false flag : never going to be mentioned in a press briefing, let alone admitted.

So the Kremlin message = Ukraine/west/US. Kremlin press briefing = 'downplay ISIS'. Put a lid on the fear stalking Moscow.

www.theguardian.com

Russia-Ukraine war: Russian foreign ministry claims it’s ‘extremely hard to believe’ Islamic State could launch Moscow attack – as it happened

Russian officials have repeatedly cast doubt over who was behind attack despite IS claiming responsibility and Western intelligence evidence
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,664
Wiltshire
Eric the meek said:
From today's Guardian:

'Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in her weekly press briefing that it’s “extremely hard to believe” that Islamic State would have had the capacity to launch the attack on a Moscow concert hall last Friday that killed at least 140 people.'

Extremely hard to believe? Even though they've had a massive terrorist attack, and were warned about it by the Americans?
Notice she doesn't say 'it wasn't ISIS'.

It is only extremely hard to believe if you are insufferably arrogant like her, and/or are ignorant and believe the Kremlin spin that Russia is invincible, impregnable.
If you don't believe the Kremlin spin, then it isn't hard to believe at all.

Who is in the frame : result for Russia.

ISIS : scary, it's in Moscow, and Russia and Putin are weak.
Ukraine : join up and fight the enemy.
West/US : we were right about them all along.
Russian false flag : never going to be mentioned in a press briefing, let alone admitted.

So the Kremlin message = Ukraine/west/US. Kremlin press briefing = 'downplay ISIS'. Put a lid on the fear stalking Moscow.

www.theguardian.com

Russia-Ukraine war: Russian foreign ministry claims it’s ‘extremely hard to believe’ Islamic State could launch Moscow attack – as it happened

Russian officials have repeatedly cast doubt over who was behind attack despite IS claiming responsibility and Western intelligence evidence
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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And to mention the contradiction that "Ukraine has the capability and capacity to do such a thing in Moscow"...but were so insignificant that Russia thought they'd get to Kyiv in 3 days 🤦🏼‍♂️
 


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