[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:
One policeman for every granny and student at Navalny funeral and yet at this packed venue no cops and CCTV running the whole time.

Convenient

Convenient indeed.

However, it won't be quite so convenient if the US decides to capitalise on the evidence they have about the terrorist attack, especially if they obtained it from an FSB office somewhere, and not ISIS. We may never know if they do of course, as they would probably do it via the back channel, out of the public domain. Or they may decide not to compromise their intelligence operations.

But what a piece of Kompromat it would be. Guessing that Putin would dismiss their warning, and still carry on with his false flag, the US may have got him to unwittingly hang his entire corrupt, murderous regime, all by himself.

dejavuatbtn · Mar 23, 2024

Not sure I understand why a bunch of innocent concert goers were targeted instead of one of their military parades where it would have had a more significant impact.

raymondo · Mar 23, 2024

dejavuatbtn said:
Not sure I understand why a bunch of innocent concert goers were targeted instead of one of their military parades where it would have had a more significant impact.

Maybe just too much security around those parades? very controlled environment? just guessing

Cotton Socks · Mar 23, 2024

Let's face it, whether it was a false flag or ISIS the noise being spouted on Russian media is that it has something to do with Ukraine. No matter what, Putin now has a justification in the eyes of most/some Russians, to up the ante in some way.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:
You don't?

You realise this is exactly what Putin did in 1999. Murdering Russian civilians in Moscow apartments to galvanise society, that's not even an opinion, its proven as fact, to give himself a pretext to smash Chechnya (the false bogeyman) and be the hero who saves the day.

This is not a real politican but a KGB thug in a suit.

False flag is highly likely, and they fabricate narratives with staged events every week, just not always as big or as ruthless as this (if it was them)

1999 Russian apartment bombings - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given that the UK warned Russia about the attack, this would seem rather unlikely, surely?

What intel was it that the UK had and sent to Russia? False intel generated by the Russians themselves? If so there seems to be no limit to Putin's ingenuity

sparkie · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:

At least they've got the guy who ordered the attack absolutely central camera on the video in this tweet.

Zeberdi · Mar 23, 2024

dejavuatbtn said:
Not sure I understand why a bunch of innocent concert goers were targeted instead of one of their military parades where it would have had a more significant impact.

Because it was an attack by a bunch of jihadist fundamentalist Islamic terrorists - that is exactly their MO.

The Manchester Arena attack, Paris nightclub attack, the Istanbul nightclub attack - this is what they do - target civilians to spread terror in the population that has more social and civil impact than on military targets.

Paris attacks: What happened on the night

Timeline of 13 November attacks and how they unfolded.

www.bbc.co.uk

Istanbul nightclub attack | World news | The Guardian

www.theguardian.com

How Islamist Extremists Target Civilians

www.institute.global

raymondo · Mar 23, 2024

VERY interesting observations collected by Geraschenko... it's pretty obvious where his money is bet on what happened.
Click on 'show more ' to see the full list.

cheshunt seagull · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:
One policeman for every granny and student at Navalny funeral and yet at this packed venue no cops and CCTV running the whole time.

Convenient

They were about intimidation and surveillance which are basics for authoritarian regimes. These regimes are also not noted for the agility and responsiveness of their command structures. I think that cultural events had not been considered a security priority. This proved to be a poor piece of judgement and they have made a half-arsed attempt to save something by blaming Ukraine but no-one will believe it. I think people are in danger of over-thinking this.

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2024

raymondo said:
VERY interesting observations collected by Geraschenko... it's pretty obvious where his money is bet on what happened.
Click on 'show more ' to see the full list.

This is going to run and run.

I'm wondering if it is a safe assumption, that US and UK intelligence, by being in possession of evidence of an incoming attack a few days ago, know whether it was a false flag or a genuine terrorist attack?

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2024

cheshunt seagull said:
They were about intimidation and surveillance which are basics for authoritarian regimes. These regimes are also not noted for the agility and responsiveness of their command structures. I think that cultural events had not been considered a security priority. This proved to be a poor piece of judgement and they have made a half-arsed attempt to save something by blaming Ukraine but no-one will believe it. I think people are in danger of over-thinking this.

A lot of people are over-thinking it then.

peterward · Mar 23, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Given that the UK warned Russia about the attack, this would seem rather unlikely, surely?

What intel was it that the UK had and sent to Russia? False intel generated by the Russians themselves? If so there seems to be no limit to Putin's ingenuity

The US had the intel and US embassy in Moscow published it, warning to avoid public places especially theatres. Putin rubbished it publicly.

What is rather unlikely imho, is that Ukraine had anything to do with it at all.

Of course it may well be just ISIS, which caught Putin unaware and he's exploiting it to try and falsely link Ukraine ?

Or it might be an elaborate inside job, timed to perfection. Just finished the rubber stamp election and as 500K soldiers need mobilising. They fabricate stuff constantly.

No idea of which HWT, but feel confident it aint Kyiv.

Id assume what seems normal to an educated, humane man like yourself, isn't the way these KGB lunatics think or operate.

The cover up of the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings was done by the then new head of FSB who succeeded Putin, Nikolai Patruschev. He's been right next to Putin ever since, is now the head of Russias Security Council (Medvedev its Deputy).

These are ex KGB murderers without any limits. I wouldn't put anything past them.

raymondo · Mar 23, 2024

Eric the meek said:
This is going to run and run.

I'm wondering if it is a safe assumption, that US and UK intelligence, by being in possession of evidence of an incoming attack a few days ago, know whether it was a false flag or a genuine terrorist attack?

Yes, it will run and run - it's impossible not to read the theories out there, even though we'll probably never know the truth.
I would imagine the UK and US intelligence knows what happened to a high probability,; maybe evidence of intercepted calls or messages

. Unless it's word of mouth from informers.

I found Geraschenko',s compiled list impressive, but a number of the items could still be put down to general incompetence of the security and fire authorities.

cheshunt seagull · Mar 23, 2024

Yes, a lot of people are always up for complex theories and if I hear about false flags my BS detector is on overdrive as they are the staple diet of conspiracy theorists. Russia has been a dysfunctional country for many years and I speak as someone who has spent time there. Surveillance levels in Moscow are high but not universal and this was probably, wrongly as it turns out, not a priority. It may be that surveillance of dissent was a higher priority than terror attacks but that is a million miles from saying that the state initiated or knowingly allowed this to happen. If I am wrong I will readily eat humble pie.

raymondo · Mar 23, 2024

cheshunt seagull said:
Yes, a lot of people are always up for complex theories and if I hear about false flags my BS detector is on overdrive as they are the staple diet of conspiracy theorists. Russia has been a dysfunctional country for many years and I speak as someone who has spent time there. Surveillance levels in Moscow are high but not universal and this was probably, wrongly as it turns out, not a priority. It may be that surveillance of dissent was a higher priority than terror attacks but that is a million miles from saying that the state initiated or knowingly allowed this to happen. If I am wrong I will readily eat humble pie.

No humble pie would be needed by any of us. I think we are all theorising based on our different life experiences, and maybe our reading habits. That's part of the interest of NSC for me.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

Sirnormangall · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:
So they're going to waltz through the front line, past Russian security checkpoints, minefields etc

Of course its possible, but I don't believe it's true.

Yes, I’m not sure my first choice escape route would be to head for a war zone. But for reasons that others have explained it suits Putin’s internal PR machine to link it to Ukraine.

Triggaaar · Mar 23, 2024

dejavuatbtn said:
Not sure I understand why a bunch of innocent concert goers were targeted instead of one of their military parades where it would have had a more significant impact.

Because ISIS just want to cause terror, not harm Russia's military ability

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 23, 2024

peterward said:
The US had the intel and US embassy in Moscow published it, warning to avoid public places especially theatres. Putin rubbished it publicly.

What is rather unlikely imho, is that Ukraine had anything to do with it at all.

Of course it may well be just ISIS, which caught Putin unaware and he's exploiting it to try and falsely link Ukraine ?

Or it might be an elaborate inside job, timed to perfection. Just finished the rubber stamp election and as 500K soldiers need mobilising. They fabricate stuff constantly.

No idea of which HWT, but feel confident it aint Kyiv.

Id assume what seems normal to an educated, humane man like yourself, isn't the way these KGB lunatics think or operate.

The cover up of the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings was done by the then new head of FSB who succeeded Putin, Nikolai Patruschev. He's been right next to Putin ever since, is now the head of Russias Security Council (Medvedev its Deputy).

These are ex KGB murderers without any limits. I wouldn't put anything past them.

110%

However....if I were Putin I'd be one who wouldn't flich about Russian innocents dead to pursue an agenda.

After all, Stalin (his hero) killed 25 million of his own :ohmy:

Ethelwulf · Mar 23, 2024

Putin is like a harry and Paul sketch .

Eric the meek · Mar 23, 2024

cheshunt seagull said:
Yes, a lot of people are always up for complex theories and if I hear about false flags my BS detector is on overdrive as they are the staple diet of conspiracy theorists. Russia has been a dysfunctional country for many years and I speak as someone who has spent time there. Surveillance levels in Moscow are high but not universal and this was probably, wrongly as it turns out, not a priority. It may be that surveillance of dissent was a higher priority than terror attacks but that is a million miles from saying that the state initiated or knowingly allowed this to happen. If I am wrong I will readily eat humble pie.

I was like you once.

Then I joined the Russia invades Ukraine thread, almost from the start.

Today, having been on the thread for two years, I can tell you that very few of us are 'always up for complex theories'. We all have our feet screwed to the ground, but we do like to discuss the pros and cons of things, chew the cud, and reach a consensus - a reasoned, considered conclusion.

Two years on here have shaped me. One product, is that there is nothing - NOTHING - of which Putin is not capable. Genocide. Murder. Rape. Torture. Child abduction. Then he denies it. Blames someone else. It's all part of his maskirovka.

Was it a false flag? I don't know. Will there be another one? Unless he is stopped, you bet.

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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

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