London Irish
Well-known member
he got 2 and half mill from the Telegraph in costs and damages alone, start with Wiki tho that section is not comprehensive
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[Politics] George Galloway MP
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,877
I don’t know how things could be any less serious in Gaza right now tbh. Policy actions can be judged to have genocidal intent or a de facto genocidal effect. Israel has not been charged with Genocide but the ICJ is certainly monitoring what is going on:
“LONDON — The International Court of Justice has found it is "plausible" that Israel has committed acts that violate the Genocide Convention. In a provisional order delivered by the court's president, Joan Donoghue, the court said Israel must ensure "with immediate effect" that its forces not commit any of the acts prohibited by the convention.
Donoghue said the court cannot make a final determination right now on whether Israel is guilty of genocide. But she said that given the deteriorating situation in Gaza, the court has jurisdiction to order measures to protect Gaza's population from further risk of genocide.”
FYI - ‘Genocide’ is not limited to the killing of millions of people by definition and ‘genocide’ remains a very specific concern in Gaza - the entire population of Gaza is at risk of famine due to the blockade of aid and supplies. Over 70% of its buildings and infrastructure destroyed and 1.9 million forcibly displaced and living in refugee camps with no protection from bombardments. Half the population is under 18 with 1 in 3 children suffering from trauma and ‘many doctors who have worked in other war zones say that conditions in Gaza are the worst they have seen. “Hospitals, intended to be safe havens…have frequently turned into death traps,” with a further 58,000 civilians expected to die even if a ceasefire was reached immediately says a report released in February by Physicians for Human Rights (phri), an Israeli watchdog.
The United States Holocaust Museum describes ‘Genocide’ as having these components (not fixed numbers on the number of people killed)
“Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:
- Killing members of the group
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
I didn't mention Palestine. I'm fully aware of what is happening there. I'm also fully aware of an oversized ego using that to further their own career.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,448
How do you separate civilians from an embedded irregular military force that uses them as cover?
If Hamas is worried about civilian casualties it could surrender now and the fighting would stop.
Regards humane bombing - when did that ever happen ? WW2 , don't think so , Korea, Vietnam nope either. I can't think of many modern conflicts where this has happened except ironically the 1956, 1966 and 1973 wars which Israel fought Arab armies.
The nature of irregular armies/guerrillas/freedom fighters/terrorist is to hide in plain sight using civilians as cover so its not surprising that given the level of integration that the civilian population end up being killed.
Last edited:
5Ways Gull
È quello che è
R.I.....oh bugger!
kojak
Well-known member
- Jan 17, 2022
- 766
Maths not your strong point l take itOkay, I'll bite. The beginning of what?
My money is on you didnt really think before making this post, your bias got the better of you, and you will not have an informed answer. Over to you
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,448
I think the war would stop now if Hamas surrendered, I don't think we would see a pursuance of war just to kill Palestinians. To me that seems to indicate that its not genocide but a war where civilians were always going to be killed because of the integration of Hamas fighters with their families. What we are seeing is two opposing groups fighting over land , one side is Muslim the other side a mixture but predominantly Jewish but also including arabs.
We had a exchange of views before early in the conflict and I said it would be wrong/not work out if Israel attacked Gaza, not because they didn't have the right to attack but because it would cause a massive problem and civilian deaths and Israel would always be seen as the aggressor even though they were attacked.
Sorry to reply to my own post but I just listened to Sunk spaking for 10 minutes. Perfectly reasonable I though. Perhaps even heartwarming and inspirational. No, I mean it.
Now, whatever is behind it (some think a prelude to giving police more powers - who knows) the first talking head up on the radio accused him of doing too little too late. "Why did he not say all that before?". Condemned, like Starmer for his 'last minute' condemnation of the actions of Israel (which thankfully ended the conflict immediately as predicted).
This really gets my goat. If we demand gesture politics we will create a circus of clowns performing for claps.
I mean, why not put it in the manifesto? :
"We condemn all acts of violence especially those that have not yet taken place" (a sort of Mystic Corbyn stance). Home and hosed.
And meanwhile, whatabout:
"Will will make it illegal to have any sort of political protest to ensure that there will be no twats rocking up with stars of David intermeshed with swastikas, and the like"
Actually, I suspect this is what Sunk is planning. Political opportunism? Why not? He sounded very much in charge to me. And I qualify my comments by noting I am a labour party member.
The bombing has been indiscriminate. Look at the number of hospitals that have been hit.
Then there's the starvation being enacted
Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says
Exclusive: UN special rapporteur on the right to food Michael Fakhri says denial of food is war crime and constitutes ‘a situation of genocide’
www.google.com
And rape and executions
Following shocking testimonies of Israeli killings and field executions of Palestinians in Gaza, the Red Cross must step up to fulfil its obligations
Following shocking testimonies of Israeli killings and field executions of Palestinians in Gaza, the Red Cross must step up to fulfill its obligations
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/20/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-investigation-sexual-abuse-intl/index.html
Let's not forget the 70 years of control and Apartheid the Palestinians have been subjected to.
Amazes me that there are those that are so keen to leap to the IDF/Israel's defence.
More than naïve. Pathetic! Left wing attacks on labour, as per usual. Thatcher stopped councils spending what they like and sending the bill to HMG.
We have a poor givernment that has done great harm in the last 14 years. And yet elements on the left seem more concerned about the possibility of (the traitor) Starmer becoming PM.
f***ing weird, as well as pathetic.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,448
Where were all the marches against Syria and Russia , why was there not widespread condemnation of Russia and the Syrian leadership whilst they murdered hundreds of thousands and displaced millions? Why doesn't Egypt take in Palestinians in the same way Turkey took in Syrians? Its all down to politics and scoring one against Israel as they are seen as America's stooge or I guess it could of course be plain old antisemitism.
Don't get me wrong, Israel has gone OTT in my eyes because the outcome was very predictable when fighting a war in a densely populated area but if I were Jewish I might thing very differently.
Er, I have a degree in the subject….what did I miss?Maths not your strong point l take it
Corrected for you
kojak
Well-known member
- Jan 17, 2022
- 766
Demographics change,the electorate changes
I don't suppose a high-flying bloke like yourself living in Berlin gives two shits about the people of Rochdale
London Irish
Well-known member
The beheaded babies claims were debunked months ago. You just don't follow the news do you?Corrected for you
If you are someone who uncritically swallows Israeli army propaganda, I think you are an extremist
In this case it wasn't even the IDF that made these claims but some nutty Israeli group
Do I have to answer honestly? can I do a dare instead?Demographics change,the electorate changes
I don't suppose a high-flying bloke like yourself living in Berlin gives two shits about the people of Rochdale
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,118
I’m not. Really I’m not. Again, you’re even mis using even that cut and paste definition because you obviously haven’t read it. Genocide, if it were happening, would be Israeli’s killing every man women child and baby that’s in Gaza. That’s genocide. And as said, that’s clearly not happening and the numbers of dead would be off the scale.
You’re confused. And angry. I get it. But Gaza maybe many things but it’s not Genocide. Nor apartheid. If you knew anything about historical occurrences of either, you’d know this. Back to school, don’t they teach you young ‘une anything these days except how to get angry?
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,448
The bombing has been indiscriminate. Look at the number of hospitals that have been hit.
Then there's the starvation being enacted
Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says
Exclusive: UN special rapporteur on the right to food Michael Fakhri says denial of food is war crime and constitutes ‘a situation of genocide’
And rape and executions
Following shocking testimonies of Israeli killings and field executions of Palestinians in Gaza, the Red Cross must step up to fulfil its obligations
Following shocking testimonies of Israeli killings and field executions of Palestinians in Gaza, the Red Cross must step up to fulfill its obligationseuromedmonitor.org
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/20/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-investigation-sexual-abuse-intl/index.html
Let's not forget the 70 years of control and Apartheid the Palestinians have been subjected to.
Amazes me that there are those that are so keen to leap to the IDF/Israel's defence.
Let me state that I had a good debate with @Zeberdi about why Israel should not go into Gaza (even though they had justification) because the mayhem that followed would all be blamed on Israel.
But let me restate my question, how do you separate civilians who are tightly integrated with Hamas fighters, the answer is you can't so you either take risks with your own soldiers or you take risks with enemy civilians who may well be active supporters of the fighters. its pretty clear what any government would do in this situation.
It would not surprise me that there has been rape or executions there is a war going on and in the IDF there are going to be a number of people (men & women) who will take advantage , there will also be some who will know people killed on 7th and will have there own perspective on justice. I don't think its right but its not peculiar to this conflict.
70 years of self imposed separation is possibly nearer the mark. Those Arabs that accepted the status quo in 1948 are integrated into the Israeli state.
I am not leaping to the IDFs defence but what I do object to is a biased narrative using emotive words like genocide and apartheid when its a clear statement from both Hamas and Iran that they want to wipe out Israel and the Jews, now that would be genocide IMO.
Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
1 + 1 = 3 ?
- May 8, 2018
- 9,274
Man tells interviewer what they want to hear to secure £80,000 job with expenses shocker