highflyer
Well-known member
- Jan 21, 2016
- 2,435
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[News] Post Office Scandal -
- Thread starter Talby
- Start date
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,131
This is almost certainly going to be the case sadly. It’s always ‘they’, a mysterious shape shifting entity that isn’t on the payroll seemingly!
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Indeed. The faults were clearly being logged and someone either decided not to inform the Post Office correctly of the nature of the faults or, more likely, someone at the Post Office made the decision to carry on with the system despite of the errors. Businesses make that sort of decision every day.It really won't be the programmers, testers or developers (contract or otherwise) responsible for this. To make a cock up/cover up on this scale you have to be pretty senior
Seagull58
In the Algarve
IMO the low-hanging fruit is the leaders and staff of Fujitsu and the PO who covered up the problems from early on, some of whom have perjured themselves in court, and all of whom have committed obstruction of justice on multiple occasions. They are criminally responsible. I very much doubt that any government officials are guilty of anything except lack of interest and listening to bad advice.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
here's a problem with the public perceptions. see THPP post above, Fujitsu have been involved in govenment contracts for decades (back to 1960s as ICL). they got the PO contract because they are one of the go to IT contractors.
predict a rebrand and Fujitsu sell off at this rate. wont change the legacy organisation continuing to get gov contracts as they are one of the few with size to pitch for the them.
Talby
Active member
- Dec 24, 2023
- 129
- Thread starter
- #246
There’s anger towards ministers, top brass as the PO, Fujitsu - and rightly so. There are the system errors and cover up, then there’s the way people were pursued.
Much of the anguish at the Inquiry is about the real human impact - not only were people financially ruined they were (quite simply) treated like dirt by the legal and security teams in the PO. These were the people who interviewed them under caution, pursued them in court…even when it was apparent that Horizon was faulty.
There’s the antiquated racial classification the PO were using too. As late as 2008 their racial profiling included the term “negroid types”, along with “Chinese/Japanese types” and “dark skinned European types”.
The whole culture in the PO seems fundamentally flawed. There’s culpability.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
agree those are people really resonsible, they aren't the low fruit as not in public eye.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,880
As low hanging fruit goes, find the person who signed off the requirement for remote unaudited access to the sub postmaster's data. Quicker than searching bug lists and and I'll bet it wasn't a techie 
And the bugs aren't the problem, there's always bugs. It was the prioritisation, management and fixing of them that was the problem. And then the covering up of the management decisions from that process.
And the bugs aren't the problem, there's always bugs. It was the prioritisation, management and fixing of them that was the problem. And then the covering up of the management decisions from that process.
Black Rod
Well-known member
- Jan 19, 2013
- 948
Interesting to note the Albion club employee briefly referenced earlier in this thread has removed his 'Post Office Investigations Manager' role from his LinkedIn at some point over the last two weeks
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Fujitsu had a secret technical team working day and night accessing the system remotely to "correct" data anomalies. Fujitsu management knew very well what the bugs were.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Two Fujitsu staff were arrested for perjury two years ago. Two PO staff were questioned under caution two weeks ago. If the Met does their job properly they will end up with the senior people who led and signed off on the cover up.
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,131
It’s not especially different in many more corporates. I’ve worked in and seen and experienced (not on same level or anywhere near) it. Little Hitler’s abound, and some. I much prefer smaller businesses but you still come up against with customers, especially - again - big corporates. It’s almost cult like, these people worship who they work for. Funnily enough as a layman’s topic of conversation, so many friends of mine are saying the same. It’s endemic in this country and probably globally. The stampede to the top. Was it Adam thingy who discovered 1:3 top corporate personnel have sociopathic tendancies? You don’t have to proverbially carry an axe to murder someone when you’ve dominions doing it for you I guess!
Allison Pearson of the DT has written a brilliant piece on cronyism and the PO scandal. I couldn’t agree more with it
The Post Office scandal has exposed Britain as a hotbed of cronyism and corruption
For 20 years Mr Bates waged war on a ruthless institution, but ITV’s dramatisation has finally opened people’s eyes to the cruel injustice
www.telegraph.co.uk
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,267
Thanks for posting. Took this screenshot from HIGNFY, where Computer Weekly quoted a senior software developer on the Horizon system as to why it should never have been launched:
*edit* Having worked on a number of projects of similar size, if not larger, the language in that quote strikes me as completely true. In my experience, management would use every tool at their disposal (persuasion, coercion etc) to meet their project deadlines, rather than listen to the guys on the ground floor telling them the system wasn't yet in a fit state to go live
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I couldn't care less about any of that. People high up at the PO lied to the postmasters and pursued malicious litigation. Someone directed this. Given the lying (which is not in dispute) there is a fair bet the same high up people at the PO knew the system was at fault and pretended that it wasn't. They need to be identified and prosecuted.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,449
spot on - no conscience and no accountability
He must be joking.
Gareth Jenkins, architect of Post Office scandal, demands immunity
The former Fujitsu engineer's testimony about the faulty Horizon IT system was central to convictions
Interesting development…
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
This is what sets this apart. Many bug-ridden systems go into many different organisations but what generally happens next is a period of working together to get to the bottom of the issues. The fact that they took the stance that the system was perfect and therefore that any discrepancies were solely down to fraudulent activity by the postmasters is almost beyond comprehension. The fact that they stuck with this position for over a decade is mind-numbing. When you are given enough power and a bottomless pot of money to defend the indefensible there's nothing to stop you doing it. Those who made the decision that this would be the policy are the ones that must be rooted out.