[Albion] Conclusions from the ESL fiasco .......

[Blue Valkyrie]

We need to ensure that there are 20 PL teams going forward.

None of this 'reduce the size of the PL' nonsense.

A big voting buffer is needed against the Greedy Globetrotter 6.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We need to ensure that there are 20 PL teams going forward.

None of this 'reduce the size of the PL' nonsense.

A big voting buffer is needed against the Greedy Globetrotter 6.

You’re right and it is probably one of many battles that need to be faught. The Judas 6 operate by stealth. They will seek to amend rules that diminish their power. Ideally there would be a regulator overseeing governance of the game in the interests of all clubs. In the absence of this there probably needs to be fan groups holding all decision makers to account in much the same way as has occurred this week. I am hoping that the outrage does not die down.

 

[amexer]

On basis Perez has said today ESL is on standby I hope big 6 CEs dont attend any PL policy meetings. Understand Woodward was agreeing to everything at a UEFA meeting just days before all this surfaced

 

[amexer]

Perez said should happen because clubs need more money. Very strange thing to say with players earning 3/400k a week and transfers of £80m plus

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Perez said should happen because clubs need more money. Very strange thing to say with players earning 3/400k a week and transfers of £80m plus

One of his other comments was along the lines of, 'without the ESL we won't have the money to sign players like Mbappe from PSG'.

 

[Triggaaar]

I am hoping that the outrage does not die down.

The new CL rules are to allow clubs to enter based on the fact they've done well in the past (ie, not needing to finish top 4 etc). No one here seems to care about that. So much for outrage.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

One of his other comments was along the lines of, 'without the ESL we won't have the money to sign players like Mbappe from PSG'.

What a weapons-grade plum.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The new CL rules are to allow clubs to enter based on the fact they've done well in the past (ie, not needing to finish top 4 etc). No one here seems to care about that. So much for outrage.

I haven't seen that. I will look it up!

 

[Triggaaar]

I haven't seen that. I will look it up!

I posted about it on the main thread. No one seems to care:

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...-1000--new-champions-league-format-explained/

"Slots three and four: awarded to the two clubs with the highest club coefficients that have not qualified automatically for the Champions League’s league stage, but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League (due to start in the 2021/22 season)."

I don't even understand slots 1 & 2, but these 'coefficients' are based on doing well in the past. That is not how football is supposed to work. Each season, before a ball is kicked, the bigger clubs have a better chance of qualifying, not based on how well they play in the coming season, but how they did years ago. It's ESL light.

 

[portslade seagull]

One of his other comments was along the lines of, 'without the ESL we won't have the money to sign players like Mbappe from PSG'.

Maybe operating within their means might help

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

The new CL rules are to allow clubs to enter based on the fact they've done well in the past (ie, not needing to finish top 4 etc). No one here seems to care about that. So much for outrage.

I haven't seen that. I will look it up!

If I've read the rules correctly, I think only 2 teams enter through this route.

The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.

 

[BBassic]

Maybe operating within their means might help

Can't see that happening anytime soon - just yesterday Real Madrid signed Alaba from Bayern. Can only imagine the sort of salary he's picked up.

They're skint though. Obvs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The new CL rules are to allow clubs to enter based on the fact they've done well in the past (ie, not needing to finish top 4 etc). No one here seems to care about that. So much for outrage.

I have looked it up. Four extra places. The rest decided as before.The extra places decided by:

Slot one: One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking.
Slot two: Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called 'Champions Path'.
Slots three and four: Awarded to the two clubs with the highest club coefficients that have not qualified automatically for the Champions League’s league stage, but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League (due to start in the 2021/22 season).

And the champions path:

Champions Path

The Champions Path includes all league champions which do not qualify directly for the group stage, and consists of the following rounds:

Preliminary round (4 teams playing one-legged semi-finals and final): 4 teams which enter in this round.
First qualifying round (34 teams): 33 teams which enter in this round, and 1 winner of the preliminary round.
Second qualifying round (20 teams): 3 teams which enter in this round, and 17 winners of the first qualifying round.
Third qualifying round (10 teams): 10 winners of the second qualifying round.
Play-off round (8 teams): 3 teams which enter in this round, and 5 winners of the third qualifying round.

Hmmmm.....lots more games but where in this is a change to favour teams not in the top four? As far as I can see the 'champions path' may help Rangers to qualify. The ones who qualified to qualify but didn't qualify....again we are looking at clubs like Rangers. The club who were third in the 5th biggest league in Europe....currently that would be.....Bournmouth!

Apologies, I misunderstood you. It seemed to me from what you wrote that they were rigging it so that Leicester wouldn't have qualified a few years ago because their historical record was poor, whereas ManU, Barearselona and Unreal Madrid qualify every year based on historical achievement....

I suspect the lack of outrage about this is that it is all a bit meh. A few extra teams, extra games, rather wanky league format..... I really don't give a tiny shit, to be honest

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If I've read the rules correctly, I think only 2 teams enter through this route.

The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.

Yes, but they still have to have been good enough to have qualified 'a bit' that year. And it is two clubs out of, what? 36?

I also note that apparently all the national associations voted for these changes unanimously. It wasn't just rammed through by Real Madrid and some smaller boys who they bullied into agreement.

 

[Triggaaar]

If I've read the rules correctly, I think only 2 teams enter through this route.

Firstly, even if it was only 2, how is that fair? That's not how football has ever worked, and is just a lighter version than the ESL proposed.

Secondly, if it is to start with 2, what about when it's pushed to 3, then 4, etc etc, to make sure the big clubs never miss out on the money that should always be rightfully there's? While I don't like to use 'thin end of the wedge' arguments when what's being proposed is reasonable, the fact is that it's not reasonable that there are 2 extra places for historically big clubs, and on top of that, it could be the thin end of the wedge. It shouldn't be allowed on the basis of 'oh well it's only 2'.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I posted about it on the main thread. No one seems to care:

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...-1000--new-champions-league-format-explained/

"Slots three and four: awarded to the two clubs with the highest club coefficients that have not qualified automatically for the Champions League’s league stage, but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase or the Europa League/the Europa Conference League (due to start in the 2021/22 season)."

I don't even understand slots 1 & 2, but these 'coefficients' are based on doing well in the past. That is not how football is supposed to work. Each season, before a ball is kicked, the bigger clubs have a better chance of qualifying, not based on how well they play in the coming season, but how they did years ago. It's ESL light.

Mate, I am far too busy working to read NSC all day

I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. This is deffo not going to guarantee that Manure, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Athletic Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milano, AC Milan, Juventus, Porto, Borussia Dortmund, Sparta Moscow, Galatasarasay, Arsenal, Spuds, The Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday qualify every year

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, but they still have to have been good enough to have qualified 'a bit' that year. And it is two clubs out of, what? 36?

I also note that apparently all the national associations voted for these changes unanimously. It wasn't just rammed through by Real Madrid and some smaller boys who they bullied into agreement.

the associations hardly have any choice, UEFA rams through the changes or you cant compete in their tournament, etc. they are no better.

there was a non-meh reaction when first raised last year, its going to feck up the domestic schedules to squeeze in the extra games.

 

[Triggaaar]

Hmmmm.....lots more games but where in this is a change to favour teams not in the top four?

It doesn't take away from those who have qualified, but does offer spaces to the big clubs who basically shouldn't. So...

Leicester finish 5th - tough luck, you ain't in...
Liverpool finish 5th - oo, it's Liverpool, in you come.

Apologies, I misunderstood you. It seemed to me from what you wrote that they were rigging it so that Leicester wouldn't have qualified a few years ago because their historical record was poor, whereas ManU, Barearselona and Unreal Madrid qualify every year based on historical achievement....

It would be rigging it so that Leicester won't qualify in a position where Liverpool (etc) would.

So one day Brighton can dream of finishing 5th. That's not good enough, but it would be if we were a big club.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Firstly, even if it was only 2, how is that fair? That's not how football has ever worked, and is just a lighter version than the ESL proposed.

Secondly, if it is to start with 2, what about when it's pushed to 3, then 4, etc etc, to make sure the big clubs never miss out on the money that should always be rightfully there's? While I don't like to use 'thin end of the wedge' arguments when what's being proposed is reasonable, the fact is that it's not reasonable that there are 2 extra places for historically big clubs, and on top of that, it could be the thin end of the wedge. It shouldn't be allowed on the basis of 'oh well it's only 2'.

I agree. It is a bit shit.

But it is nowhere near the basis for outrage equivalent to that of the creation of the Pirate league. Which is why nobody has said anything much about it.

I would suggest.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It doesn't take away from those who have qualified, but does offer spaces to the big clubs who basically shouldn't. So...

Leicester finish 5th - tough luck, you ain't in...
Liverpool finish 5th - oo, it's Liverpool, in you come.

It would be rigging it so that Leicester won't qualify in a position where Liverpool (etc) would.

So one day Brighton can dream of finishing 5th. That's not good enough, but it would be if we were a big club.

Now I am outraged. To whom should I write?