[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Which ones do you think are living up to that responsibility..purely out of curiosity

My local MP for one , the Mogg is another so many to choose from to be honest
Regards
DF

 

[LamieRobertson]

My local MP
Regards
DF

I’ve no idea where u live .

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I’ve no idea where u live .

You dont need to know
Regards
DF

 

[LamieRobertson]

You dont need to know
Regards
DF

So what’s his name..don’t be shy

 

[B-right-on]

Very happy with it, thanks for asking.
My only discontent is with the MPs who tried to derail the process before the last election.
I would imagine the poll will be distorted by non Brexit voters at some point soon but that’s modern politics (see behavior of Trump and his supporters as another example of the inability to accept democratic votes).

This sums it up for me. Havent read trough the 12 pages but can assume its been derailed as the very first post tried to do.

 

[ManOfSussex]

She's English
Regards
DF

In East Germany? Did you take her to Vicarage Road?

 

[kevo]

Given the age of most people on NSC, particularly the age of those who voted for Brexit, 'bouncing back in my lifetime' means PDQ!

 

[WATFORD zero]

He's certainly filled a void on both here and my ignore list since JCFG abandoned his mate Ppf all alone to champion Brexit between CBeebies programmes and colouring in books.

Just between you and me, I don't think JCFG has left his mate all on his own. He's just adopted a cunning disguise

 

[nicko31]

Hi

Been about a year since you left the EU now. I heard a lot of people saying that you were going to turn into some third world country when it happened. Much like other non-EU states like Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, where I guess they all must be starving and living in caves as they didnt even join the EU to begin with. Are you suffering as badly?

I don't want to be unkind but I suggest you do a little more research before you post on this thread any further

 

[Barham's tash]

I think the idea that the EU is socialist would raise a few eyebrows. If it were, why are the Communist party, the SWP, the Socialist Party and the Bennite left so opposed to it?

I’m probably oversimplifying it but the central tenet of the EU seems to be pan European equality, enabling free movement and opportunity for all, not just the elite, therefore also presumably one of the key drivers of socialist manifestos?

Just because the right hijacked Brexit, doesn't mean it is not a left wing issue too. Granted we wouldn't have won if they didn't, but still there are many reasons why the left should oppose the EU.

As someone who is left wing, I have to be a strong believer in democracy (as someone who is left wing and not a believer in democracy probably believes in some kind of dictatorship). The EU is too undemocratic for me. More or less unelected by our populace, passing decisions that affect us with next to no local democratic influence.

Socialism would be returning public services to the people. We have seen the opposite occur since the EU, so the EU has done nothing to help socialism in this country, in this key respect of it, anyway.

We need decisions to be more localised, more devolved. Not made by some unelected suits in Brussels, telling us to migrate x amount of people from y and export x amount of y to z, in order to fill quotas to appease minor nations that have the most minimal influence themselves, with some of the members being currently in democratic or economic turmoil.

I suppose one positive, is that Germany does really well out of the EU. But I'm not sure the geopolitical advantage of one nation is reason enough to support a trading club that restricts trade we can do with our other friends around the world, including developing nations, most certainly which would be to the advantage of our own people and others.

Thanks for taking the time. I guess for me the point you make about the EU not helping socialism here is the tipping point for your argument? But not helping socialism in the UK doesn’t mean the EU as a concept isn’t left leaning in principle.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Just between you and me, I don't think JCFG has left his mate all on his own. He's just adopted a cunning disguise

The thumbs up thing though -

 

[ManOfSussex]

I don't want to be unkind but I suggest you do a little more research before you post on this thread any further

Don't worry about him, he's just from Sweden and believes conspiracy theories.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’m probably oversimplifying it but the central tenet of the EU seems to be pan European equality, enabling free movement and opportunity for all, not just the elite, therefore also presumably one of the key drivers of socialist manifestos?




Thanks for taking the time. I guess for me the point you make about the EU not helping socialism here is the tipping point for your argument? But not helping socialism in the UK doesn’t mean the EU as a concept isn’t left leaning in principle.

Why do you think the EU promotes free movement of labour and capital ? To drive down the price. It is an agenda set by corporations. Macron and Merkel are hardly socialists. Look at the role of Goldman Sachs in promoting ‘pan European equality.’ Where is the equality in making the richer European countries richer by means of artificially low exchange rates at the expense of artificially high exchange rates for the poorer south ? Germany and the UK have sucked in cheap labour to keep the boom times going. It is certainly not socialism.

 

[Weststander]

This is what did it for me. They never gave us a referendum because they knew what the answer would be. To then lie and say that the Lisbon treaty was just a tidying up exercise and not a constitution, as originally labelled and rejected in a few countries, was the final straw.

It was arrogant and completely non-listening, but I disagree, imho Major and Blair would’ve got referenda through with ease.

Instead, a huge number of people (I completely underestimated the strength of feeling and numbers) reacted by voting Brexit. The one time laughed at fringe figure of Farage, couldn’t believe his luck as mainstream party governments and parliaments ploughed on regardless.

 

[Weststander]

Why do you think the EU promotes free movement of labour and capital ? To drive down the price. It is an agenda set by corporations. Macron and Merkel are hardly socialists. Look at the role of Goldman Sachs in promoting ‘pan European equality.’ Where is the equality in making the richer European countries richer by means of artificially low exchange rates at the expense of artificially high exchange rates for the poorer south ? Germany and the UK have sucked in cheap labour to keep the boom times going. It is certainly not socialism.

That’s exactly what the likes of Yanis Varoufakis, Corbyn, McCluskey and many others have consistently said throughout.

That the EU benefits the shareholders and industrialists making eye watering sums from Daimler, Krups, E.ON, AXA and the banks.

They point out the vast majority of labour law improvements in the UK originated domestically, and did not originate in Brussels or Strasbourg.

 

[Randy McNob]

I must say even after 4.5 years and everything thats happened the delusion is still as strong as ever

"...Some better governments will come along...."
"...it will be okay in 10, 20 or 30 years...."

you were sold a pup, no shame in admitting it

 

[pastafarian]

Happy as Larry

Non membership of the EU and returning sovereign powers away from pooled sovereignty and back to Westminster was the major prize for me. The transition period was a sensible compromise but it must come to an end.

For those with economic concerns a trade deal with the EU will come, not as quickly as some want but one will eventually be agreed. Trade deals with other nations will be agreed too.

The biggest win over the past few years though was democracy. It wasn’t a battle most people were expecting would happen. The attempt to derail or even revoke the decision to Leave was shameful and a low point for our parliament and those that supported doing the opposite to the vote instruction. The fact this attempt was defeated should be rejoiced by everyone, whether Leaver or Remainer (and there are plenty who voted remain, respected the result and who did not agree with voting again or revoking the decision). If we decide by democratic vote to rejoin in the future then I will be equally horrified if people attempt to ignore that rejoining decision and try to do the opposite and stay out. Some people simply think its fine to ignore referendum results which i find mind boggling.
For the sake of the nation im glad that they were put back in their box.

Time to move on together.

 

[pastafarian]

so no one is deterred even though none of the below promises have been delivered? After all, people voted on the understanding this what they would get

View attachment 130406

You see, this is the sort of nonsense people just get bored with . Its nothing more than a document, over 3 years old, which was entirely compiled by Nick Clegg, pro remain MPs and the ever-disingenuous Open Britain and slanted to one viewpoint, Remain. Not a government contract with the British people at all.

The fact you still post this boring rubbish over 3 years after it was shoved together and sign off your posts Brexit = Nationalism really does show you up.
Fortunately, the majority of those who were pro remain on NSC are not like you in the slightest.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

View attachment 130427

You see, this is the sort of nonsense people just get bored with . Its nothing more than a document, over 3 years old, which was entirely compiled by Nick Clegg, pro remain MPs and the ever-disingenuous Open Britain and slanted to one viewpoint, Remain. Not a government contract with the British people at all.

The fact you still post this boring rubbish over 3 years after it was shoved together and sign off your posts Brexit = Nationalism really does show you up.
Fortunately, the majority of those who were pro remain on NSC are not like you in the slightest.

I didn’t even realize. Having just googled, the poster above should be ashamed of himself. The following link details the authors of the document. To post it without this important qualification is simply distortion of the debate.

https://leftfootforward.org/2017/03...o-the-british-people-how-many-will-be-broken/

 

[BadFish]

One thing i've noticed with quite a significant number of brexiteers is their opinion of what brexit would end up has changed as we've gone throught the process, but they claim that that's what they always believed. It seems quite common for them to be much more hardline about brexit now than at the time of the referendum, that whole change from it will be easy to get a deal with the eu to I've always supported no deal.

From start to finish and on both sides opinions were polarised and enthrenched. People were challenged and attacked for their opinions and even from here it was frightening how divided the country became. The more people argued and attacked the more they dug in and became more enthrenched in their opinion. Given that often those opinions were not allowed to be neuanced, it was either Brexit or Remain. It became part of people's identity and people were required to defend that identity over and over and over.

It was always going to be difficult for people to change their mind. I can't see this changing going forward either. Brexiteers will point to the successful parts of the withdrawl and Remainers will point to the unsuccessfull. Never the twain shall meet.

The gene is out of the bottle though, an extremely simplistic binary question was asked and am extremely simplistic binary yet painfully narrow answer was garnered. It was a **** up from start to finish and I continue to wonder who is actually going to get what they wanted out of the first vote.

I guess Jacob Reece Mogg and his chums will get to pay even less tax, so there is that.

I would be interested to see how the poll on this thread worked out but don't feel qualified to vote (I'm still waiting for the post brexit plan of how the country can thrive ). Is there a way to see the results without voting?