[Football] Greenwood and foden

[zefarelly]

Yes, they are very young, 18 and 20 is very young. Half and a third of the age of most of the posters on here. Whether they can vote or marry is besides the point, those ages were set a long time ago and are not relevant to this debate. They are not fully matured yet and will make really stupid mistakes.

I'm 38 now but can remember thinking I knew it all at their ages and making stupid mistakes myself. Some of the most intelligent people I know who are now in very senior and important jobs made stupid mistakes at that age. Whatever anyone says, you are not fully formed at 18 and 20 and will make what seem like ridiculous decisions to the older generations.

The abuse they're getting here and from other social media and media generally is way OTT for what they've actually done. Teenagers and those in their early 20's worlds have been turned totally upside down by this pandemic at a very important and sensitive time of their live when they are mentally and emotionally fragile and I think they're generally getting an unfair rap at the moment.

Also, whilst I don't think Southgate has a clue about picking centre backs for his England squad, I think he's handled this very well. That is a guy with a mature and intelligent view of the world around him.

Shittest post I've read for quite some time.

I think the younger generation are far more sensible and worldly wise than mine on the whole . . . . I'm 49 now, left school at 16 house at 20, never ever did anything as ****ing idiotic as that, expecially given the circumstances in the worlkd right now, and I did my fair share of dicking about.

GS is an FA gimp of extremely mediocre ability.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Shittest post I've read for quite some time.

I think the younger generation are far more sensible and worldly wise than mine on the whole . . . . I'm 49 now, left school at 16 house at 20, never ever did anything as ****ing idiotic as that, expecially given the circumstances in the worlkd right now, and I did my fair share of dicking about.

GS is an FA gimp of extremely mediocre ability.

Shittest post for some time, I'll wear that one with pride!

I was talking more generally about teenagers. They're getting a lot of stick from everywhere at the moment for being blamed for spreading the virus and where I live they're getting nothing but shit at the moment because they're hanging round together in parks etc but where else have they to go? At a usually massively exciting time of life, they're missing out massively at the moment as well as being dicked around re: school/college/uni etc and I feel really sorry for them.

These 2 are clearly more privileged than most and have made a really stupid mistake but they will know that and learn from it. 18 and 20 is really young though and I honestly think most 18 and 20 year old's would not view this transgression as seriously as we who are older do. Life looks totally different at that age and I think a lot of people are forgetting that.

Don't feel this witch hunt from the world of social and mainstream media is deserved or helping anyone.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Mings, Keane, Dier, Pickford..... have a word. The bloke's a clown who's totally out of his depth.

So 4 players out of 23?

 

[zefarelly]

Shittest post for some time, I'll wear that one with pride!

That's why we come here

I was talking more generally about teenagers. They're getting a lot of stick from everywhere at the moment for being blamed for spreading the virus and where I live they're getting nothing but shit at the moment because they're hanging round together in parks etc but where else have they to go? At a usually massively exciting time of life, they're missing out massively at the moment as well as being dicked around re: school/college/uni etc and I feel really sorry for them.

It's been a tough year for all, has it ever been any much different for teenagers ? what I see locally at the moment is no different to when I was a teenager in the 80's.

the air have been rightly sent home, give them a month or two to reflect, soak up a few bollockings and hopefully they'll come back better for it football wise, and pick up a few tips on hookers from their senior team mates

Anyway Southgate is a tool. from the Chinese chocolate socket set end of the tool scale!

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Shittest post for some time, I'll wear that one with pride!

I was talking more generally about teenagers. They're getting a lot of stick from everywhere at the moment for being blamed for spreading the virus and where I live they're getting nothing but shit at the moment because they're hanging round together in parks etc but where else have they to go? At a usually massively exciting time of life, they're missing out massively at the moment as well as being dicked around re: school/college/uni etc and I feel really sorry for them.

These 2 are clearly more privileged than most and have made a really stupid mistake but they will know that and learn from it. 18 and 20 is really young though and I honestly think most 18 and 20 year old's would not view this transgression as seriously as we who are older do. Life looks totally different at that age and I think a lot of people are forgetting that.

Don't feel this witch hunt from the world of social and mainstream media is deserved or helping anyone.

They are old enough to procreate and take lives in the name of the country. What are your views on their ability to do that? Raise the army entry level to 40?

 

[Lethargic]

They are old enough to procreate and take lives in the name of the country. What are your views on their ability to do that? Raise the army entry level to 40?

This, I joined up at 18 and was serving in Germany by the time I was 20. I f**ked up many time but at no point did I ever put my colleagues at risk it was simply not done, it was taking responsibility. To me this is symptomatic of today's society the more entitled generation (young and old) now want everything their way without taking any responsibility and we are see it more and more within certain parts of society.

Should have made them travel home in isolation in a rowing boat.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

If they are old enough to do what they are told to ON the pitch, then they are old enough to do what they are told OFF the pitch.

It's not rocket science – "Due to this global pandemic that has killed thousands and thousands of people and disrupted the livelihoods of the majority of the world in some form or another, we need you to stay in the hotel and within the team 'bubble'. Everyone understand that?"

Yes, young people make mistakes – we've ALL made mistakes – but not following those simple rules is a mistake of monumental proportions. In fact, I don't think it's a mistake, it's just a total disregard for what people have told you to do. Pathetic.

 

[Jim in the West]

Southgate should have been sacked for picking Maguire when he was in prison. He should also have been sacked for picking utter dogshit like Keane and Mings. He should have been sacked for playing the prostitute shagging, lockdown breaker Walker and he should have been sacked for being a shithouse manager.

So this latest incident doesn't really change anything. **** off Gareth, you're a clueless FA yes man who's never achieved anything as a manager.

I backed him to start with as he seemed like a decent bloke and talked the talk. "Players picked on merit etc". Complete bullshit. It's as if the players are in charge and he's scared to drop some of them, the wilted celery ****.

I support England, always have and always will. But there comes a time (Stevie Mac being the last time) where I'd prefer that we lost so that we can get rid of the **** in charge and get someone in who can make the quality players who we have actually play BETTER. Discipline the dickheads properly. Pick the best players in the country. You know, the stuff that a MANAGER is supposed to do.

This doesn't mean that I "don't support England" or I'm "not bothered". It's the complete opposite. I love England and having this simpering, Palace GIMP in charge makes me angry. He's shit.

Pretty much agree. I was a Southgate fan (perhaps I was blinkered) until recently. I was a bit uncomfortable with the way Sterling was singled out after his bust-up with Gomez....but if you're going to set the bar THAT low (or high, depending on your perspective) when it comes to player behaviour it means there is no way you should be picking Walker or (even worse) Maguire. The double-standards are ridiculous. And now Southgate has come out defending Greenwood and Foden. And all that bollocks about not picking Grealish last year because he didn't have enough Premier League experience....but then deciding to pick Kalvin Phillips who has played precisely ZERO EPL games.

But the biggest issue in the longer term is that Southgate manages to take a bunch of incredibly talented players and turns them into an absolutely mediocre team. The World Cup in 2018 was great, but we all know that we got VERY lucky in the draw. We played two decent teams (Belgium and Croatia) and lost to them both - in fact, we managed to lose to Belgium TWICE!!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bloody hell, have I wandered onto Mumsnet ?

They are young adults who knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They made a conscious decision to go to the bother of hiring a hotel room on the snide, and scuttle a pair of slappers in there for a bit of hide the sausage. They get given everything, their every whim is catered for, their arses are wiped for them every step of the way. But it still wasn't enough - they still had to give the middle finger to their manager, their team mates and everyone else inside that protective covid bubble that was created for their safety and everyone elses.

Breathtaking arrogance. "Mentally and emotionally fragile" my right bollock.

Mentally and emotionally fragile? I agree with you completely.
I never thought I would read grown men calling an 18 year and a 20 year old emotionally and fragile mentally.

They’ve had it bad this summer? They should try working in a hospital as do some of NSC’s finest, and come home exhausted after being exposed to a virulent disease, watching people die, on their own, without any friends or relatives holding their hands, and then see if they were mentally and emotionally fragile.

 

[father_and_son]

I've phrased that wrong and it's probably a lazy comment from me, but I think [MENTION=457]sheebo[/MENTION] has a point.

Ultimately the loudest voices on here are usually the dissenting ones which is what I remember. When it comes to England people are always very quick to get the knives out, very quick to claim embarrassment and very quick to distance themselves if anything goes wrong. Much quicker than with the Albion.

On subject, Foden and Greenwood are morons! Not sure how you can pin it on Southgate though. Up until recently Southgate had been great but you can see some cracks starting to appear - playing players out of position is usually the beginning of the end.

I would liken this to a school trip, with Southgate being a teacher. He can be the hard nosed disciplinarian who tells everyone that he's calling parents to come and collect their errant offspring if anything nefarious happens or he can try to be everyone's friend and be cool and relaxed.

He is clearly the latter because no one seems to be shit scared of f**king up on an England trip. Again and again, England players behave like tw*ts and pretty much get away with it. Ok, sent home, but does anyone not expect them to be back at the next call-up? Maguire was called up while his court case was actually happening!

Complete lack of discipline and leadership and the buck for that stops at the manager.

Whenever you think of his tactical skills, training regime, etc, he lacks the respect of his team. That can only be down to him.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I would liken this to a school trip, with Southgate being a teacher. He can be the hard nosed disciplinarian who tells everyone that he's calling parents to come and collect their errant offspring if anything nefarious happens or he can try to be everyone's friend and be cool and relaxed.

He is clearly the latter because no one seems to be shit scared of f**king up on an England trip. Again and again, England players behave like tw*ts and pretty much get away with it. Ok, sent home, but does anyone not expect them to be back at the next call-up? Maguire was called up while his court case was actually happening!

Complete lack of discipline and leadership and the buck for that stops at the manager.

Whenever you think of his tactical skills, training regime, etc, he lacks the respect of his team. That can only be down to him.

Only down to him and choosing entitled players from Manchester clubs.

 

[drew]

Pretty much agree. I was a Southgate fan (perhaps I was blinkered) until recently. I was a bit uncomfortable with the way Sterling was singled out after his bust-up with Gomez....but if you're going to set the bar THAT low (or high, depending on your perspective) when it comes to player behaviour it means there is no way you should be picking Walker or (even worse) Maguire. The double-standards are ridiculous. And now Southgate has come out defending Greenwood and Foden. And all that bollocks about not picking Grealish last year because he didn't have enough Premier League experience....but then deciding to pick Kalvin Phillips who has played precisely ZERO EPL games.

But the biggest issue in the longer term is that Southgate manages to take a bunch of incredibly talented players and turns them into an absolutely mediocre team. The World Cup in 2018 was great, but we all know that we got VERY lucky in the draw. We played two decent teams (Belgium and Croatia) and lost to them both - in fact, we managed to lose to Belgium TWICE!!

Have to agree. Think Southgate got lucky at the world cup and that he is in the job because others ****ed up in the limelight so he is a 'steady' pair of hands that comes across well at press conferences.

His refusal to even select Grealish claiming he is a striker and there's too much competition. Maguire should be dropped until his case is resolved. And as for Walker, his lack of self control both on and off the pitch should see his international career terminated with immediate effect!

Going back to the Grealish situation, my gut feeling is that Southgate just doesn't like his personality. Probably reminds him of Gascoigne and I can't see that Southgate got on with him when they were playing. Southgate would be the class prefect and Gascoigne the class clown who everyone likes!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Mentally and emotionally fragile? I agree with you completely.
I never thought I would read grown men calling an 18 year and a 20 year old emotionally and fragile mentally.

They’ve had it bad this summer? They should try working in a hospital as do some of NSC’s finest, and come home exhausted after being exposed to a virulent disease, watching people die, on their own, without any friends or relatives holding their hands, and then see if they were mentally and emotionally fragile.

You just reminded me of 'Sally Barnes' in this sketch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0&t=2s

I agree with your every word, by the way.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This, I joined up at 18 and was serving in Germany by the time I was 20. I f**ked up many time but at no point did I ever put my colleagues at risk it was simply not done, it was taking responsibility. To me this is symptomatic of today's society the more entitled generation (young and old) now want everything their way without taking any responsibility and we are see it more and more within certain parts of society.

Should have made them travel home in isolation in a rowing boat.

I agree with you and the many other posts on this thread giving the pair pelters.

But I do 'blame' the management - for being weak.

Where I work there is a culture of pandering to the 'snowflake generation' (not my words) of students. I sat in on some presentations last year as part of my role as senior tutor for a doctoral programme, and had the temerity to call out one deeply mannered and arrogant student for his foppish and fey piss-take of a talk. I was told later by a hand wringing colleague that some students had set up a Whats App group just to plot against me. Naturally nothing happened. Most of the students prefer a bit of tough love and hate to see their fellows get away with being dicks. Set out the rules, use your emotional intelligence, and then expect, nay demand, engagement

Southgate has absolutely all the wrong characteristics as Greyback. I expect some of the players take great delight in taking the piss, those who know the boss regards them as indespensable. Others probably dislike Southgit for his favouritism and wishy washy ways.

I am looking forward to tonight because I always look forward to an England game; on occasion a Gareth Gathering has well performed. However, I will be more than displeased if they stink the place out tonight. Plan B, anyone?

 

[Easy 10]

He is clearly the latter because no one seems to be shit scared of f**king up on an England trip. Again and again, England players behave like tw*ts and pretty much get away with it. Ok, sent home, but does anyone not expect them to be back at the next call-up? Maguire was called up while his court case was actually happening!

By the Icelandic authorities, NOT Southgate, its worth remembering. They were booted out of the country for breaching their quarantine rules. This wasn't Southgate getting "tough", it was taken out of his hands.

 

[banjo]

 

[Dick Head]

Foden is.

Greenwood isn't, though....................

 

[clapham_gull]

I would liken this to a school trip, with Southgate being a teacher. He can be the hard nosed disciplinarian who tells everyone that he's calling parents to come and collect their errant offspring if anything nefarious happens or he can try to be everyone's friend and be cool and relaxed.

He is clearly the latter because no one seems to be shit scared of f**king up on an England trip. Again and again, England players behave like tw*ts and pretty much get away with it. Ok, sent home, but does anyone not expect them to be back at the next call-up? Maguire was called up while his court case was actually happening!

Complete lack of discipline and leadership and the buck for that stops at the manager.

Whenever you think of his tactical skills, training regime, etc, he lacks the respect of his team. That can only be down to him.

Exactly, you either have the authority or you don't.

Reminds of a teacher we had at school, quite happy to shout and put people in detention but at the end of the day some kids rang rings round him.

( which usually involved somebody writing his nickname FUNGUS on the blackboard before every lesson )

These are young men but it needs to be made very clear upfront. Ok guys these are the rules, if you break them you are frozen out of the squad for a long time. No ifs or buts and I don't care who you are.

 

[portlock seagull]

Exactly, you either have the authority or you don't.

Reminds of a teacher we had at school, quite happy to shout and put people in detention but at the end of the day some kids rang rings round him.

( which usually involved somebody writing his nickname FUNGUS on the blackboard before every lesson )

These are young men but it needs to be made very clear upfront. Ok guys these are the rules, if you break them you are frozen out of the squad for a long time. No ifs or buts and I don't care who you are.

Spot on. These idiots were also sent home in disgrace on a private jet, an obscene paradox if ever there were. What’s wrong with the ferry?! I’d have sent the Covidiots home on a whaling boat!

 

[BadFish]

All the while we value the self and it's freedoms above community and others we will produce people like this.

I think it is up to us as a society to demand what we would like to see.

We express our value by financial reward. The message received by our England starlets is that we value them several hundred times more that your average Joe. Why do we expect them to behave in a humble manner?

We all now understand that they will be back in the England team soon. And the message is further rammed home.

But let's make no bones about this we are all complicit in the mind bending figures that are thrown at these kids. We attend the games, we buy the shirts, we pay for our TV subscriptions. We accept that these people get paid far far far inexcess of our nurses, teachers, doctors, shop keepers , farmers etc etc etc.

We also continue to vote for politicians that support this gap. Politicians who tell us that there is no such thing as society. They tell us to prioritise the individual, destroy communities and divide us to conquer.

Of course, as individuals what can we do? We don't blame ourselves, it can't be me! We blame the poor schmuk whose job it is to try and deal with the monsters we've created. Still that's easier than taking any responsibility . We won't do that because we are the products of the same environment.

Sorry went off on one there.


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