[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Weststander]

they cant pitch that, at best draws more attention to previous coalition (first question always "what policy will be dropped"), and they risk being percieved as mini-Labour. they've taken a firm line to give them a identity on hot topic. may be a risk, any other option the net effect is unlikly to be more seats.

Good post.

Some Remainers and/or Corbynista’s here are seeing things solely through the lens of getting Labour in.

In reality the LibDems can and have been a significant middle ground party, often with 50 or 60 odds seats in recent parliaments. Their raison d’être is not to meet the needs of those who want anything but Boris, or for that matter anything but Corbyn.

Perhaps they’re just being crushed because most of Britain has simply lurched into an angry mindset of having to hate Boris or Corbyn?

 

[clapham_gull]

they cant pitch that, at best draws more attention to previous coalition (first question always "what policy will be dropped"), and they risk being percieved as mini-Labour. they've taken a firm line to give them a identity on hot topic. may be a risk, any other option the net effect is unlikly to be more seats.

Let's face it, they have struggled with vision and policy for years.

They picked up seats in local councils on the local issues. They have found on a national level it was difficult to have a coherent view, so have gone with a mixed bag of single issues that the other main parties hadn't picked up on as yet.

What exactly do they stand for ?

Environment concerns. Pretty mainstream now, it's simply degrees of concern.
Mental Heath Issues. Laudable, but mainstream.
Cannabis Legalisation. Laudable, but not a vote winner.
Economic prudence. Difficult one to sell if you were involved with austerity.
Revoking Article 50. Ok, that's over 50% of the electorate gone.

I've never got the Lib Dems beyond a ragbag of opportunists who snipe from the sidelines against the major two parties but fail to come up with a solution for change.

The centre ground is either Labour moving rightwards under Blair or the Tories employing somebody who isn't very very scary. They don't do that very often but sometimes they do.

For the Lib Dems to suddenly pop up like Zebedee every now and then to claim to occupy it, sorry I don't buy it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Let's face it, they have struggled with vision and policy for years.

They picked up seats in local councils on the local issues. They have found on a national level it was difficult to have a coherent view, so have gone with a mixed bag of single issues that the other main parties hadn't picked up on as yet.

What exactly do they stand for ?

Environment concerns. Pretty mainstream now, it's simply degrees of concern.
Mental Heath Issues. Laudable, but mainstream.
Cannabis Legalisation. Laudable, but not a vote winner.
Economic prudence. Difficult one to sell if you were involved with austerity.
Revoking Article 50. Ok, that's over 50% of the electorate gone.

I've never got the Lib Dems beyond a ragbag of opportunists who snipe from the sidelines against the major two parties but fail to come up with a solution for change.

The centre ground is either Labour moving rightwards under Blair or the Tories employing somebody who isn't very very scary. They don't do that very often but sometimes they do.

For the Lib Dems to suddenly pop up like Zebedee every now and then to claim to occupy it, sorry I don't buy it.

Total rubbish. Lib Dems are hard-wired to be pro-EU and internationalist, pro-Unionist, left of centre, socially progressive.

The British electorate can't do shades of grey, it can't understand how coalition between two parties can work but politics is about trade offs, compromise.

If we had proportional representation our politics would be greatly enriched, yet every 4 or 5 years our destiny is decided by First Past The Post and 70 or 80 swing seats, and I post as a voter who is completely disenfranchised by living in one of the safest Tory seats in the country.

Boris was given a rough ride in QT tonight and rightly so, but you can guarantee two things come 13th December: firstly that he will be PM and secondly that c 60% of the country will have voted against him.

 

[Dick Head]

 

[Dick Head]

Genuine question, does this Corbyn audience, influence the millions of swing voters sitting at home? Either way?

Do smug, overtly biased students, shouting and interrupting, counter-intuitively piss people off? It’s not just an anti-Tory thing, Swinson was booed, accused of being right wing of all things, interrupted, treated like a sack of shit.

She's more right-wing than Johnson.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Total rubbish. Lib Dems are hard-wired to be pro-EU and internationalist, pro-Unionist, left of centre, socially progressive.

The British electorate can't do shades of grey, it can't understand how coalition between two parties can work but politics is about trade offs, compromise.

If we had proportional representation our politics would be greatly enriched, yet every 4 or 5 years our destiny is decided by First Past The Post and 70 or 80 swing seats, and I post as a voter who is completely disenfranchised by living in one of the safest Tory seats in the country.

Boris was given a rough ride in QT tonight and rightly so, but you can guarantee two things come 13th December: firstly that he will be PM and secondly that c 60% of the country will have voted against him.

The electorate don’t do shades of grey but politicians have to. I wouldn’t for a second suggest Libs need to cosy up to Labour, but campaigning and getting on message is a nuanced art. There is a gulf between outright attack and hostility to simply constructive criticism and playing on key differences. They’re playing it as the other 2 are equally bad, vote for us. But that simply isn’t true when your key policy is remain in the EU and 1 of those parties can offer that. Most pragmatic people are saying to themselves, hold on, they’re offering a hard Brexit, and they’re offering a 2nd vote, but you think they’re equally bad alternatives. Simply doesn’t make sense against their own policies.

 

[theonlymikey]

interesting. so if this was the country's debt, would similar apply, reduce income and future generations pay deductions?

Interesting concept, one with mileage i might add if we want to get serious about getting rid of the UK debt. But it completely side steps the issue regarding equal pay with unequal deductions.

Two Maths professors, one 28, the other 45, both went to university, both earning £40k salary.

The 28yo has a £37 monthly deduction for his student loan, the older does not due to his free education. Therefore the younger person is automatically worse off.

Meanwhile, house prices are up. So Mr 28 has to rely on rentals . Problem is, there's little or no social housing left, so he has to rely on the private rental market. So he finds a rental.

Funny story though, Mr 45 took advantage of readily available social housing, and purchased his home cheaply on right to buy. Allowing him the opportunity to obtain a cheeky buy to let later on. So, Mr 28 moves into Mr 45s rental. The rent is £600.

To recap, Mr 28 is now £400 worse off per year due to student loans. And the lack of social housing and cheap houses to buy mean £7200.00 of Mr 28s money is moving into Mr 45s bank, instead of his own asset.

Meanwhile, 12 years ago, Mr 45s mother was diagnosed with cancer, but luckily she received the best care imaginable and is now cancer free.

Mr 28s father has gone into the GP with a cough. It sounds serious, so the doctor refers him to the hospital for scans. The appt is made and he gets a letter in thr ppst a few weeks later. They day of, he receives a call, the oncologist has called in sick, there's not enough doctors to cover.

Appointment is rearranged for another few weeks later. Mr 28 has to take a day off work to take his father for a second time. His father doesn't drive and the local hospital was closed sue to cuts and the nearest one is 30 miles away.

By this time, they have found cancer, and it has progressed. Had they caught it earlier, there would be better chances of survival.

Mr 28, now pays more deductions for education, the boomer is taking his cash off him for rent money, and the NHS cannot provide the same care Mr 45s mother received.

Listen it's just a story, but a very real one that many many people are in, with very real implications.

It's no wonder young people vote Labour when society is currently so heavily weighted against them.

A vote for conservatives is an attack on young people.

A vote for conservatives is a vote for social injustice.







Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

Interesting concept, one with mileage i might add if we want to get serious about getting rid of the UK debt. But it completely side steps the issue regarding equal pay with unequal deductions.

yeah, sidestepped because its another topic. was illustrating to you that borrowing comes at a cost. you seem to understand that for an individual but dont think it applies at national level.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Completely agree. If you central theme is remain, why on earth the hostility to the party offering a 2nd referendum? Doesn’t make sense. She needs a nuanced campaign. Of course she can’t back Labour, but with subtlety could be less hostile.

I don't think the Lib Dems are suffering from revoking article 50. That's probably more popular than nationalising the water supply statistically.

They are suffering from their leader (and still party) being associated with the austerity driven coalition of Cameron. They are further suffering from being outwardly hostile to the Labour Party.

If I was advising them, I'd suggest they could be seen as the party who could blunt the extremes of Corbyn in a coalition.

Unfortunately for them, they decided to come across as a mild right of centre prudent party who are more likely to go into coalition with one nation Tories than Labour,

That's quite obviously a losing strategy because the one nation Tories are gone.

I've never had a clue what they stand for and this election hasn't changed anything,

Swinson has made it plain there’ll be no arrangement with a minority Tory government. They have nowt in common in these EU dominated times. As we all know, these are not One Nation Tories (Disraeli, Heath, Cameron), more akin to the Mike Pence view of the world. History lesson about 2010 - many Labour and LibDem figures felt post-election that Brown had had his time, plus it was constitutional etiquette for very minority parties to first look at doing a deal with the party with most seats.

I wish they would just review each seat so that they stand down their respective weaker candidates to facilitate a Lib Dem or Labour win. Doesn't have to be an admission of failure by either party more a positive step to prevent a Tory majority party. They could then take that into an informal coalition so that the Lib Dems try to moderate Labour excesses. If they don't work together the Tories will win.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Just watched the BBC news and they were interviewing various voters for their views , an unemployed mother of one who relies on food banks felt that Boris was the one for her as he will get things done. He will but they won't benefit her.

They also had the usual visit to older people's recreational centre (note i am 63 so old in some people's eyes ancient in others) they mentioned how the quality of care was going down due to lack of resources but will be voting Tory to sort it out.

WTF!.

 

[Stat Brother]

I wish they would just review each seat so that they stand down their respective weaker candidates to facilitate a Lib Dem or Labour win. Doesn't have to be an admission of failure by either party more a positive step to prevent a Tory majority party. They could then take that into an informal coalition so that the Lib Dems try to moderate Labour excesses. If they don't work together the Tories will win.

You wouldn't have thought it was rocket science and yet here we are.

The LibDems and esp Labour are happier to win a few battles and lose the war.
Than lose a few battles and win the war.

Complete lunacy of the highest order
It's not just lunacy it smacks of exactly the same arrogance and contempt for the electorate I seem to be accusing the Tories of, on a daily basis.

Made all the worse by the fact we're only talking about targeting 20 to 40 seats depending on how much they want to win.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You wouldn't have thought it was rocket science and yet here we are.

The LibDems and esp Labour are happier to win a few battles and lose the war.
Than lose a few battles and win the war.

Complete lunacy of the highest order

Labour, while not forming any pacts or standing candidates down, are not attacking the Liberal Democrats. Their focus has been the Tories. When you consider the ammunition of Swinson's voting record in government and in Parliament, they simply haven't gone after her or the Libs in anyway like they could do. Labour know they need the Libs to win Lib/Tory marginals.

The Libs sound like their campaign is being managed by some bitter ex-members of the other parties who like jilted lovers, hell hath no fury...

 

[A1X]

Nothing about this isn't hilarious

[TWEET]1197947645983100929[/TWEET]

 

[Stat Brother]

Labour, while not forming any pacts or standing candidates down, are not attacking the Liberal Democrats. Their focus has been the Tories. When you consider the ammunition of Swinson's voting record in government and in Parliament, they simply haven't gone after her or the Libs in anyway like they could do. Labour know they need the Libs to win Lib/Tory marginals.

The Libs sound like their campaign is being managed by some bitter ex-members of the other parties who like jilted lovers, hell hath no fury...

But in the grand scheme of things that's all very hollow.
I don't imagine the majority of the electorate has even noticed.

Whereas the Lib Dems standing down their candidate in Somerset North, a former Labour constituency before a boundary change, sends out a massive message loud and clear.

Esp when that deal is reciprocated elsewhere.

 

[Weststander]

You wouldn't have thought it was rocket science and yet here we are.

The LibDems and esp Labour are happier to win a few battles and lose the war.
Than lose a few battles and win the war.

Complete lunacy of the highest order
It's not just lunacy it smacks of exactly the same arrogance and contempt for the electorate I seem to be accusing the Tories of, on a daily basis.

Made all the worse by the fact we're only talking about targeting 20 to 40 seats depending on how much they want to win.

Good post. We would now be in touching distance of a moderate centre-left government, if clever strategic thinking had been allowed in the Labour Party over the last 30 months. Not just thinking, but allowing the clever, gentle, political brains of the likes of Harman, Kyle and Hodge to have had a big say and real role .... not just token centre characters, outvoted by Momentum at every turn. Advisers such as Lance Price in the 90’s and 00’s were political geniuses, they knew how to win the middle ground of the electorate. Angry 20 year olds and urban always-hate-Tory types on their own, will never be enough to deliver a clear Labour majority.

An unpopular, incumbent government would’ve been in its last days, the natural cycle of change.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If the Lib Dems rule out a pact and take a firm line on Remain they're criticised, but if they committed to a deal with Corbyn people would say why not just vote Labour in the first place.

It is an impossible position. Previous history and First Past The Post means you get a fudge. Neither of the two main parties take the Lib Dems seriously, even when they're likely to hold the balance of power - again. The majority of voters keep voting for the same old same old whilst expecting a different outcome. It's Groundhog Day madness all over again.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The electorate don’t do shades of grey but politicians have to. I wouldn’t for a second suggest Libs need to cosy up to Labour, but campaigning and getting on message is a nuanced art. There is a gulf between outright attack and hostility to simply constructive criticism and playing on key differences. They’re playing it as the other 2 are equally bad, vote for us. But that simply isn’t true when your key policy is remain in the EU and 1 of those parties can offer that. Most pragmatic people are saying to themselves, hold on, they’re offering a hard Brexit, and they’re offering a 2nd vote, but you think they’re equally bad alternatives. Simply doesn’t make sense against their own policies.

It might make sense in 5 years time if the message is "We told you Brexit was going to be unequivocally shit, it's been shit, now will you listen?"

This election for the Lib Dems is about winning Remain seats off the Tories, hoping SNP take seats off Tories in Scotland and hoping for a pact over Second Referendum with Labour.

 

[Ernest]

Nothing about this isn't hilarious

[TWEET]1197947645983100929[/TWEET]

What the hell is a retired focus group moderator

 

[melias shoes]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gr...est-poll-grimsby-general-election-3564637.amp

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Tory voters earning over 80k if Corbyn gets in.