[Politics] Brexit

[Bodian]

Can someone explain why they don't just debate this withdrawal bill for the next month, rather than having an election? All that effort to get an agreement, then abandon it. I understand they wanted to push it through before October 31st, but with that date no longer a deadline, why aren't they trying to pass it? Haven't heard a good argument yet.

Either:
a) Johnson doesn't want it scrutinised because all the flaws will then be plain to see;
b) Johnson doesn't want it debated, because the number of amendments that will be brought forward will change it to a softer Brexit;
c) Johnson doesn't actually want Brexit to happen.

If a or b happen - the Johnson is unlikely to get Tory backing in the next election. He has to have an election now to get five years in power.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Can someone explain why they don't just debate this withdrawal bill for the next month, rather than having an election? All that effort to get an agreemwent, then abandon it. I understand they wanted to push it through before October 31st, but with that date no longer a deadline, why aren't they trying to pass it? Haven't heard a good argument yet.

In a simple world there is no good argument against that, we would have found a way forward together, but that ship probably sailed when May chose a different path. The reality is that MPs want different things from the legislation and a divided parliament means no progress. The answer is an election or a referendum.

 

[Mental Lental]

Can someone explain why they don't just debate this withdrawal bill for the next month, rather than having an election? All that effort to get an agreement, then abandon it. I understand they wanted to push it through before October 31st, but with that date no longer a deadline, why aren't they trying to pass it? Haven't heard a good argument yet.

I think they're worried about somebody proposing an amendment that says the deal will be passed and then put to the people vs remain in a 2nd ref.

 

[The Clamp]

You can believe what you want, didn’t have you down as the gullible type like watford and clampy







:

You never really did explain why on a Brexit thread, apropos of absolutely nothing, in the middle of a debate you took the time to mock up and post a google search page displaying the bookmarks for Porn, Nasty Porn, Really Nasty Porn and Spare Porn. Then disappear for weeks when it was pointed out.

Maybe you did explain and I missed it but do an old fool a favour and run it by us again? See how gullible we all really are.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Has something upset you ?

Don't worry. You'll get used to BREXIT extensions. They're quite fun really.

I am guessing that Mr 'we are leaving in March, what part of 'we voted leave' don't you understand' has suddenly realised his long felt dweams have been snatched away, again?

What a ****ing shame

Edit, I forgot to say: diddums, dry your eyes. And scream for a policeman.

 

[beorhthelm]

Can someone explain why they don't just debate this withdrawal bill for the next month, rather than having an election? All that effort to get an agreement, then abandon it. I understand they wanted to push it through before October 31st, but with that date no longer a deadline, why aren't they trying to pass it? Haven't heard a good argument yet.

very peculiar, apparently you cant debate something unless its official business, so if the governement withdraws the bill, cant be debated. of course it can be read, scrutinised, discussed to the nth degree outside the chamber, but all the clever opinions and points dont get recorded so the MPs sort of dont do anything officially.

 

[Mental Lental]

I am guessing that Mr 'we are leaving in March, what part of 'we voted leave' don't you understand' has suddenly realised his long felt dweams have been snatched away, again?

What a ****ing shame

Edit, I forgot to say: diddums, dry your eyes. And scream for a policeman.

And according to Auntie, The EU aren't likely to agree to Boris' request that this definitely be the last extension.......

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50214224

And if there's a Lab majority or Lab/Lib-dem coalition it's likely to see us to a full 4 years after the last ref given that a new ref will legally require 22 weeks to set up.

 

[clapham_gull]

Can someone explain why they don't just debate this withdrawal bill for the next month, rather than having an election? All that effort to get an agreement, then abandon it. I understand they wanted to push it through before October 31st, but with that date no longer a deadline, why aren't they trying to pass it? Haven't heard a good argument yet.

Because leaving the EU is only part of the story. The Tories have been hijacked by a hardcore neo-liberal "cult" who want to turn the UK into a low taxation and regulation economy that relies on cheap non EU immigration.

There isn't a conspiracy theory, it's all there in pseudo academic publications that a number of MPs have contributed to. It's a "project".

Debate this deal in Parliament and the whole thing gets pulled apart.

You have to stop and think why the Conservative and Unionist party were so ready to throw the DUP under the bus. The answer is that isn't really the Conservative party as we know it, there has been a take over similar to one we have seen with the Republicans in the USA.

However there the parallels end. This isn't a protectionist, "Make the UK Great Again" ideology. This bunch will quite happily throw UK farming and manufacturing to the fire if cheaper goods can be sourced from abroad.

Luckily for them there are enough thick as mince Tory voters who will support them. They'll get it eventually and realise their party died when May was pushed out.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because leaving the EU is only part of the story. The Tories have been hijacked by a hardcore neo-liberal "cult" who want to turn the UK into a low taxation and regulation economy that relies on cheap non EU immigration.

There isn't a conspiracy theory, it's all there in pseudo academic publications that a number of MPs have contributed to. It's a "project".

Debate this deal in Parliament and the whole thing gets pulled apart.

it is partial conspiracy because much could be done anyway, it gets wrapped up in brexit debate, when really its political idealogy. existing law and regulation continue for now. both sides are at it, the ones wanting change saying brexit wont change enough, those that dont want change insisting it will happen by default the day after we leave. reality is most change would require an awful lot of primary legislation to be repealled or enacted, which will lose votes if its not what people really want.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And according to Auntie, The EU aren't likely to agree to Boris' request that this definitely be the last extension.......

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50214224

And if there's a Lab majority or Lab/Lib-dem coalition it's likely to see us to a full 4 years after the last ref given that a new ref will legally require 22 weeks to set up.

Trouble is the grizzled gammon and the 'I voted remain but we must abide by the will of the people' and the 'Corbyn is useless' contingents have given the tories a massive lead in the GE polls, so Boris the Liar will probably be elected properly at some point, with a majority, and a free pass to spaff all over everything.

He sounded very complacent today in parliament.

Still...he needs to bully and con his way to a general election before he can jemmy us into a hard Brexit. No doubt the Prancing Ninnies of this world are crowing 'frit' at Corbyn for not walking into that particular trap....hope he holds his nerve....in the meantime Boris doesn't have a full hand and is left to jigger and poke.

So let's man the ditches. . . . gosh, empty still. Who knew?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Because leaving the EU is only part of the story. The Tories have been hijacked by a hardcore neo-liberal "thundercunt" who want to turn the UK into a low taxation and regulation economy that relies on cheap non EU immigration.

There isn't a conspiracy theory, it's all there in pseudo academic publications that a number of MPs have contributed to. It's a "project".

Debate this deal in Parliament and the whole thing gets pulled apart.

You have to stop and think why the Conservative and Unionist party were so ready to throw the DUP under the bus. The answer is that isn't really the Conservative party as we know it, there has been a take over similar to one we have seen with the Republicans in the USA.

However there the parallels end. This isn't a protectionist, "Make the UK Great Again" ideology. This bunch will quite happily throw UK farming and manufacturing to the fire if cheaper goods can be sourced from abroad.

Luckily for them there are enough thick as mince Tory voters who will support them. They'll get it eventually and realise their party died when May was pushed out.

Edited for you

 

[clapham_gull]

it is partial conspiracy because much could be done anyway, it gets wrapped up in brexit debate, when really its political idealogy. existing law and regulation continue for now. both sides are at it, the ones wanting change saying brexit wont change enough, those that dont want change insisting it will happen by default the day after we leave. reality is most change would require an awful lot of primary legislation to be repealled or enacted, which will lose votes if its not what people really want.

Of course, but you have your head in the sand if you think Brexit was "just about leaving the EU".

We've all witnessed the Labour party move from a centre left party to a very much left wing one and taken it as read. Anything they want to do is of course subject to legislation being passed by Parliament.

However, something very "similar" in terms of shift has happened to the Tories but isn't widely discussed. Promising billions in public spending, opening the borders to mass non-EU immigration whilst threatening to throw away regulation and decrease taxes for the very well off.

Unlike Labour they have done it with a sleight of hand to the extent that most of their membership think that this is a return to Tory "core" values.

Is it ?

 

[Mental Lental]

Trouble is the grizzled gammon and the 'I voted remain but we must abide by the will of the people' and the 'Corbyn is useless' contingents have given the tories a massive lead in the GE polls, so Boris the Liar will probably be elected properly at some point, with a majority, and a free pass to spaff all over everything.

He sounded very complacent today in parliament.

Still...he needs to bully and con his way to a general election before he can jemmy us into a hard Brexit. No doubt the Prancing Ninnies of this world are crowing 'frit' at Corbyn for not walking into that particular trap....hope he holds his nerve....in the meantime Boris doesn't have a full hand and is left to jigger and poke.

So let's man the ditches. . . . gosh, empty still. Who knew?

I can see a GE leading to a 4 way split of even(ish) voting spread out over the 4 parties if they stick to a clear Brexit position....No deal (Brexit Party), current deal (Tory), 2nd ref (Labour), revoke A20 (Lib dem). Whichever way it goes it looks to me like another round of chaos with another hung parliament.

Yeah I think I'd rather just leave him squirming and force him to preside over a his deal vs remain referendum. Now that leavers know what they are voting for and the fact that the new ref will be a full 4 years after the last one. It's time to check with the people again.

 

[nicko31]

Time to meltdown those Brexit Commemorative 50p coins..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...oy-commemorative-50p-coins-in-brexit-meltdown

Nothing though compared to the £2B spaffed up the wall in recent weeks and the failed £100m Get Ready for Brexit campaign....

 

[nicko31]

Looks like an election, bizarre decision for Tories to go for this with the BP still hanging around like a bad smell......

 

[Baldseagull]

it is partial conspiracy because much could be done anyway, it gets wrapped up in brexit debate, when really its political idealogy. existing law and regulation continue for now. both sides are at it, the ones wanting change saying brexit wont change enough, those that dont want change insisting it will happen by default the day after we leave. reality is most change would require an awful lot of primary legislation to be repealled or enacted, which will lose votes if its not what people really want.

Don't underestimate the Tory spin machine and backing they have in the press, The Sun sold Britains partial opt out of the working time directive, as the Government protecting the workers overtime payments, and the EU as trying to take them away, totally ignoring the health of the workers which was the reason for it's introduction.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Has something upset you ?

Don't worry. You'll get used to BREXIT extensions. They're quite fun really.

Fun, yeah most Democratic reasonable people are chuckling in Delight
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Looks like an election, bizarre decision for Tories to go for this with the BP still hanging around like a bad smell......

Scared ?
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I can see a GE leading to a 4 way split of even(ish) voting spread out over the 4 parties if they stick to a clear Brexit position....No deal (Brexit Party), current deal (Tory), 2nd ref (Labour), revoke A20 (Lib dem). Whichever way it goes it looks to me like another round of chaos with another hung parliament.

Yeah I think I'd rather just leave him squirming and force him to preside over a his deal vs remain referendum. Now that leavers know what they are voting for and the fact that the new ref will be a full 4 years after the last one. It's time to check with the people again.

Still struggling with the referendum result
Regards
DF

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And which one will you be backing to deliver your 'good deal' that meets all the red lines you quoted

As is probably obvious, I usually ignore your posts and repetitive, boring questions but I think I'll humour you on this occasion.

It is indeed a dilemma for me who to vote for in December ( and it will be then the GE is held - don't even need Meg for that prediction ).

Lib Dem - well never never. I couldn't dirty my pencil to vote for a party that tried to destroy the Albion.

Then it becomes a tad more difficult. Do I vote Tory in the belief Johnson will actually deliver ? Or do I vote Brexit Party to keep the pressure up ? Or indeed, like last GE, do I put my Brexit sympathies to one side and vote for Peter Kyle because he's a great MP for the area ? Despite thinking Corbyn would be a disaster as PM.

Difficult one …… but a choice I'd actually appreciate being allowed to make if Parliament actually had the guts to offer it to me.