[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

I'd vote Labour because they are the only party trying to listen and taking into account 33m votes, not just 17m or 16m. It doesn't sound decisive or unequivocal because it isn't, but it is a position that after 3 years of fruitless negotiation and ridiculous partisanship, actually gives everyone an informed decision to make on the finality of Brexit.

Lib Dems ignoring 17m voters is just an arrogant joke beyond belief, how is that exactly going to heal the country simply ignoring 17m? I'm a remainer and I wouldn't vote for any party that chooses to go against either side of the vote as it happens.

Many Labour Leave voters would rather take their chances with a 2nd referendum than vote Tory. Polls are meaningless at the moment. Everyone is angry, frustrated, and will say anything to a poll. The X in the box is a different matter. What you have to consider is why the 13m that voted Labour in 2017 wouldn't do the same in 2019, against the 13.7m that voted Tory that clearly have a different party on their hands.

Labour is the only party that gives its Leave and Remain voters a chance for a further say. Some Leave voters may see that as a better chance for securing Brexit than a continued stalemate in Parliament.

Comments like below probably aren't polling Labour, but in the ballot box it might be a different story.

The LibDems have always stated remaining is the best policy. They haven't changed their minds. If they get elected, they have a mandate, because no government is bound by the previous government.
There would be more than 17.4 million voting for them, if they won enough seats.

LibDem in Lewes, is the only way to get rid of the Borid groupie there now.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If LD won an election with a overall majority and revoked they have a mandate to so do, if we do have an election it will be 4 years since the crooked vote of 2016 the outcome will be a mandate

On the flip side if Boris won and got a majority campaigning with no deal he have a mandate too.

There maybe a mandate from the election, but the division in the country will be profound. You think 17m are just going to take a GE result and say 'oh well they have a mandate'. That is not how consensus politics should be whether remain or no deal. You've gone to the people once (a mistake), and you're going to have to go to them again to have finality.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The LibDems have always stated remaining is the best policy. They haven't changed their minds. If they get elected, they have a mandate, because no government is bound by the previous government.
There would be more than 17.4 million voting for them, if they won enough seats.

LibDem in Lewes, is the only way to get rid of the Borid groupie there now.

don't think any General Election winning party has ever polled 14m votes, let alone 17m.

 

[A1X]

Lib Dems ignoring 17m voters is just an arrogant joke beyond belief, how is that exactly going to heal the country simply ignoring 17m?

Given basically every other party is quite prepared to ignore 16.5m voters I'm not sure how you can describe them as arrogant but not the others.

 

[nicko31]

There maybe a mandate from the election, but the division in the country will be profound. You think 17m are just going to take a GE result and say 'oh well they have a mandate'. That is not how consensus politics should be whether remain or no deal. You've gone to the people once (a mistake), and you're going to have to go to them again to have finality.

So what is your solution to heal the division from here? What sort deal will get us through this and keep the UK intact?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Given basically every other party is quite prepared to ignore 16.5m voters I'm not sure how you can describe them as arrogant but not the others.

That is the point, Labour isn't ignoring the 16m it is offering them a 2nd chance. Tories are respecting the outcome of the first referendum. The LibDems have picked the losing side and saying that's what they're going to democratically lead the country with...

 

[A1X]

There maybe a mandate from the election, but the division in the country will be profound. You think 17m are just going to take a GE result and say 'oh well they have a mandate'. That is not how consensus politics should be whether remain or no deal.

But it is exactly how the Remain voting 16.5m have been treated for the last three years. Don't recall anyone wringing their hands about that.

 

[A1X]

That is the point, Labour isn't ignoring the 16m it is offering them a 2nd chance. Tories are respecting the outcome of the first referendum. The LibDems have picked the losing side and saying that's what they're going to democratically lead the country with...

If they win a General Election outright then whatever they choose they have the democratic right to do.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Fantastic, he also understands and studies patterns in cash flow at big multi national companies. He is wasted ******* himself silly on the internet, he needs to be running a FTSE 100 company!

Slow time of the year ,company bills to pay sounds like a cash flow problem ,no problem let's blame Brexit nice one Mikey
Regards
DF

 

[Bold Seagull]

But it is exactly how the Remain voting 16.5m have been treated for the last three years. Don't recall anyone wringing their hands about that.

We would have left already if the views of the 16m was being ignored.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The lib dems have made it very clear they are remainers. Labour have made it clear that they don't have a clue. The key thing affecting us is Brexit and whether you believe it will have a major adverse affect on the economy. From what I have seen from the Brexit negotiations I have no faith in it turning out well and that will drive more austerity not less and Labour will not be able to deliver anything without increasing everyone's taxes. I am in Kemptown and will need to see who is standing for the LDs. I voted Labour but not this time.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If they win a General Election outright then whatever they choose they have the democratic right to do.

I'm not disputing that factual assessment of what they have the right to do if they won the GE. I'm giving you a reason why I think they are wrong. That is politics.

 

[BLOCK F]

You're absolutely right, we should stick with Boris 'honest' Johnson. He definitely won't lie to his wife, his mistresses, his schoolfriends, his fellow MPs and cabinet members, the electorate and the queen

Watford, Sussex and Bold, as I have said many times before, I am no fan Of Boris Johnson, but step away from your entrenched positions and really ask yourself, are Corbyn and McDonnell the right people to be running this country? The point I am trying to make is that a hard Left Government is not what the country needs. By all means , let us have a centre left Government, but not a hard left one. A heavy defeat for Corbyn may lead to the end of this extremism( that appeals to very few in this country,) and the rebirth of Labour as a responsible party fit to govern.
You all come over as fairly hard left, but I may be wrong. You may be happy to support a regime of idealogues, who are more interested in keeping control of the Party rather than forming a Government, I don't know!

 

[A1X]

We would have left already if the views of the 16m was being ignored.

No we wouldn't. Brexit itself is an almost impossibly difficult task, but it's not because anyone in the major parties has been listening to Remainers that this is true, it was always going to prove to be. A majority of Leave supporters don't really want No Deal.

 

[Bold Seagull]

So what is your solution to heal the division from here? What sort deal will get us through this and keep the UK intact?

My view is the same one I took in 2017 when I voted, that a Brexit deal needed to retain close alignment with the EU, prevent border controls so that any kind of backstop would be irrelevant because we would continue borderless trade with Ireland. This policy didn't win the election though, so we are where we are, a series of deals that haven't been able to get through Parliament. I would therefore take any deal from now on and put it to Parliament that this is the deal that will go to a confirmatory vote against remaining on the paper. It's not going to completely heal the divisions, but the people will ultimately have been given the final say.

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm not a Labour supporter but have you seen the national debt since the Tories took power in 2010. It has doubled.

Thunder, my main point is, if anyone thinks the Tories or moderate Labour have, in the past, messed up the economy, they ain't seen nothing yet, if they let Corbyn and McDonnell loose!

 

[Wardy's twin]

Watford, Sussex and Bold, as I have said many times before, I am no fan Of Boris Johnson, but step away from your entrenched positions and really ask yourself, are Corbyn and McDonnell the right people to be running this country? The point I am trying to make is that a hard Left Government is not what the country needs. By all means , let us have a centre left Government, but not a hard left one. A heavy defeat for Corbyn may lead to the end of this extremism( that appeals to very few in this country,) and the rebirth of Labour as a responsible party fit to govern.
You all come over as fairly hard left, but I may be wrong. You may be happy to support a regime of idealogues, who are more interested in keeping control of the Party rather than forming a Government, I don't know!

Have to agree with this. We have McCluskey and Rees-Mogg acting like 15th century Kingmakers and polarizing people to their ideas and sitting in the middle are the vast majority of people who want to improve their lives but not to the extent of wrecking other people.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I've always been an ardent remainer and believe that revoking Article 50 ASAP would be the best thing for Britain. ('No deal' being a complete unmitigated and long term economic and social disaster and any 'good deal' will leave us under, at the very least, a very significant proportion of EU regulations and rules with no input).

Whatever happens, there will be a large number of angry people, but I think the only way to minimise that number is by having a second referendum with detailed, implementable options. If a solution ends up with a significantly higher proportion that 52% it has to be an improvement on the current situation and if it doesn't the country is still divided but at least we have an agreed implementable solution. It's not what I want but I can't see any downside

 

[nicko31]

Watford, Sussex and Bold, as I have said many times before, I am no fan Of Boris Johnson, but step away from your entrenched positions and really ask yourself, are Corbyn and McDonnell the right people to be running this country? The point I am trying to make is that a hard Left Government is not what the country needs. By all means , let us have a centre left Government, but not a hard left one. A heavy defeat for Corbyn may lead to the end of this extremism( that appeals to very few in this country,) and the rebirth of Labour as a responsible party fit to govern.
You all come over as fairly hard left, but I may be wrong. You may be happy to support a regime of idealogues, who are more interested in keeping control of the Party rather than forming a Government, I don't know!

The silver lining of a heavy defeat for Corbyn would probably mean the re-birth of Labour. But would that mean a big win for the Tories, now an extreme Nationalist party that will lead to the break up of our country.

I'm struggling to see a good outcome...

 

[WATFORD zero]

Watford, Sussex and Bold, as I have said many times before, I am no fan Of Boris Johnson, but step away from your entrenched positions and really ask yourself, are Corbyn and McDonnell the right people to be running this country? The point I am trying to make is that a hard Left Government is not what the country needs. By all means , let us have a centre left Government, but not a hard left one. A heavy defeat for Corbyn may lead to the end of this extremism( that appeals to very few in this country,) and the rebirth of Labour as a responsible party fit to govern.
You all come over as fairly hard left, but I may be wrong. You may be happy to support a regime of idealogues, who are more interested in keeping control of the Party rather than forming a Government, I don't know!

So to stop a hard left Government, we should elect a hard right one ? (It's interesting that you should think that my views are entrenched but yours are not, I haven't voted for a labour candidate at any election in the last 10 years !).

Or are you suggesting the conservative MPs who have been kicked out for trying to keep the Union together are left wing extremists as well ?