[Football] United on the verge.....

[Simster]

"He is a more successful Tony Pulis". I stand by that, and writing a list of his achievements as a comparison does nothing but prove my point.

They both play a similar style of football - just one with substantially more resources than the other. Both are whiny, annoying men.

The reality is that most of the best clubs in the world simply wont stomach the Mourinho style of football anymore - it's archaic and being the underdog is only good if you're actually the underdog. Some managers are better with such jobs and some managers are better when they have to create attacking sides. Mourinho made his name as a big budget defensive coach with a focus on being a strong side that's tough to beat. But even at Chelsea he was the underdog as they'd not won anything of note in year. The same at Inter in the Champions League where no one expected them to win anything, despite their budget at the time being massive compared to everyone else in their league. But at Real and Man Utd, where he's had to build proactive, attacking sides for fans that demand more, he's failed.

So I'm sorry, but the comparison is valid.

No it's absolute nonsense - he's no more a more successful Tony Pulis than any other manager. Listing JM's achievements doesn't prove your point at all - it just highlights how successful JM was, it doesn't mean he's the same as Pulis only more successful.

When JM was winning multiple trophies with Chelsea, his team wasn't boring. You imply that his strength was an emphasis on defence and you say his teams were tough to beat. Well you don't win titles by drawing lots of games, so that is a silly remark.

You're also skirting over his time at Porto where he made his name. He won the league twice there of course (which is nothing special in a 3 team league) but he also won the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. WITH PORTO. Not Liverpool, Man City, or Spurs and all their millions. It was like winning the UCL with PSV Eindhoven, Ajax or Celtic. Can you imagine any of them winning the UCL? Of course not.

 

[beorhthelm]

Mourinho was great for a 10 year spell between 2002 and 2012 but he is now yesterdays man.

you know he won the Premier League and Europa League Cup since then? not too shabby by normal standards.

Pogba is not the footballing messiah, he had about 1-2 good games in the World Cup, doesnt suit playing style under Mourinho and taken his ball home. half a dozen of one, 6 of the other. a better player would do the grafting side and come out an even better player, see Hazard.

 

[boik]

No it's absolute nonsense - he's no more a more successful Tony Pulis than any other manager. Listing JM's achievements doesn't prove your point at all - it just highlights how successful JM was, it doesn't mean he's the same as Pulis only more successful.

When JM was winning multiple trophies with Chelsea, his team wasn't boring. You imply that his strength was an emphasis on defence and you say his teams were tough to beat. Well you don't win titles by drawing lots of games, so that is a silly remark.

You're also skirting over his time at Porto where he made his name. He won the league twice there of course (which is nothing special in a 3 team league) but he also won the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. WITH PORTO. Not Liverpool, Man City, or Spurs and all their millions. It was like winning the UCL with PSV Eindhoven, Ajax or Celtic. Can you imagine any of them winning the UCL? Of course not.

If the linesman had his specs on he wouldn't have won the Champions League and then who knows how his career would have gone. Small margins.

 

[Gwylan]

But at Real and Man Utd, where he's had to build proactive, attacking sides for fans that demand more, he's failed.

At Real Madrid, his team broke the record for most goals in a season with 121 goals. You really think that's a sign of a defensive team?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

No it's absolute nonsense - he's no more a more successful Tony Pulis than any other manager. Listing JM's achievements doesn't prove your point at all - it just highlights how successful JM was, it doesn't mean he's the same as Pulis only more successful.

When JM was winning multiple trophies with Chelsea, his team wasn't boring. You imply that his strength was an emphasis on defence and you say his teams were tough to beat. Well you don't win titles by drawing lots of games, so that is a silly remark.

You're also skirting over his time at Porto where he made his name. He won the league twice there of course (which is nothing special in a 3 team league) but he also won the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. WITH PORTO. Not Liverpool, Man City, or Spurs and all their millions. It was like winning the UCL with PSV Eindhoven, Ajax or Celtic. Can you imagine any of them winning the UCL? Of course not.

It also doesn't mean he isn't. Their brand of football is, and always has been, the same. The key difference is that one has had money in massive jobs and one hasn't.

You're right, his first spell at Chelsea wasn't boring. But that's 15 years ago now, basically - he isn't the same beast he was back then, aside from the fact that he still relies so heavily on massive, massive resources.

As for my "silly remark", it isn't that silly. That team was famed for winning 1-0. They did that by being sound defensively and then spending massively on big players that would give them just enough quality to get over the line in games. But the basis of their team was still strength and defensive organisation.

You've used Porto as a stick to beat me but it further makes my point. In the league he had massive resources compared to most teams and in Europe he played the underdog card brilliantly - it suited him! And as I said above, we're talking about Mourinho now rather than then - his thing just doesn't work as well now.

The point is, in the teams where he hasn't been the underdog, he's struggled. Man Utd, like them or loath them, are a massive, massive club. And playing boring, dour, listless, defensive football week in, week out just doesn't mean the standards they've set. But that's unsurprising, because in the main, he's been an underdog defensive coach at sides with big resources but little expectations on his arrival, except Real where he failed relative to their expectations.

And as for silly remarks, at least two of those clubs have won the Champions League at some point in the past, so it does happen. But what does this have to do with Pulis? All it proves is that Mourinho, from the get go, has been backed with resources at the clubs he's been at, even Porto. Pulis hasn't ever been in a similar scenario. And anyway, I'm not knocking what Mourinho did 15 years ago, I'm knocking what he's morphed into and the job he's doing now. He's become a big budget Tony Pulis, just more annoying, whinier and more a ****.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Mourinho don't care. Mourinho will get his contract paid up and will move on to his next mug club who will be prepared to turn a blind eye to his shocking inability to man-manage his players and who are prepared to overlook his possible current mental health issues. Put it this way, wouldn't want him anywhere near our club anytime soon.

Like McGhee then!

 

[Pavilionaire]

There's a lot of stuff going on at Man Utd but, for me, the main one is they've bought a lot of mediocre players, particularly defenders. I don't think Lindelof, Darmian, Bailly are anything special, and neither are Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Luke Shaw, Marcus Rojo.

They should have shipped out a lot of this deadwood, they should have definitely prioritised getting Maguire and I think they might have been able to get Cahill over the summer after Conte's departure. However, Mourinho seems to have lost his mojo - Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford - even Fred - aren't bad players but they should be producing a whole lot more than they are.

Mourinho needs to cut his losses and leave Man Utd. He's won the FA Cup and Europa League, so it's not been a total disaster, and if United win 2, draw 2 and lose 3 of their next 7 he'll have an identical record to his last stint while Chelsea manager.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

"He is a more successful Tony Pulis". I stand by that, and writing a list of his achievements as a comparison does nothing but prove my point.

They both play a similar style of football - just one with substantially more resources than the other. Both are whiny, annoying men.

The reality is that most of the best clubs in the world simply wont stomach the Mourinho style of football anymore - it's archaic and being the underdog is only good if you're actually the underdog. Some managers are better with such jobs and some managers are better when they have to create attacking sides. Mourinho made his name as a big budget defensive coach with a focus on being a strong side that's tough to beat. But even at Chelsea he was the underdog as they'd not won anything of note in year. The same at Inter in the Champions League where no one expected them to win anything, despite their budget at the time being massive compared to everyone else in their league. But at Real and Man Utd, where he's had to build proactive, attacking sides for fans that demand more, he's failed.

So I'm sorry, but the comparison is valid.

Most of the top clubs won’t stomach him?

His managed the biggest club in Portugal, England, Spain and one of the biggest in Italy (they may have been the biggest at the time) plus Chelsea.

Real wanted him to go back before ZZ and PSG would take him in a heart beat.

His achievements are much greater than Pep.

He’s a serial winner and the best “top” manager after Sir Alex.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There's a lot of stuff going on at Man Utd but, for me, the main one is they've bought a lot of mediocre players, particularly defenders. I don't think Lindelof, Darmian, Bailly are anything special, and neither are Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Luke Shaw, Marcus Rojo.

They should have shipped out a lot of this deadwood, they should have definitely prioritised getting Maguire and I think they might have been able to get Cahill over the summer after Conte's departure. However, Mourinho seems to have lost his mojo - Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford - even Fred - aren't bad players but they should be producing a whole lot more than they are.

Mourinho needs to cut his losses and leave Man Utd. He's won the FA Cup and Europa League, so it's not been a total disaster, and if United win 2, draw 2 and lose 3 of their next 7 he'll have an identical record to his last stint while Chelsea manager.

Given the situation at United when he took over he’s done well.

The perfect time for him to go to United was after Ferguson

 

[Farehamseagull]

you know he won the Premier League and Europa League Cup since then? not too shabby by normal standards.

Pogba is not the footballing messiah, he had about 1-2 good games in the World Cup, doesnt suit playing style under Mourinho and taken his ball home. half a dozen of one, 6 of the other. a better player would do the grafting side and come out an even better player, see Hazard.

Ranieri and Mancini have also won the premier league in recent years and he genuinely nearly relegated that unbelievable Chelsea squad the following season before being sacked and Conte then turned them round the next full season. And the Europa League?!

It's interesting you should mention Hazard as he contradicts your opinion. He was ANOTHER player Mourinho fell out with when back at Chelsea recently as apparently he didn't do enough of the ugly stuff and Mourinho tried to completely stifle him as a creative player.

As I say, he was great but not anymore. The longer he stays at Man Utd the better for those like me who can't stand them.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Most of the top clubs won’t stomach him?

His managed the biggest club in Portugal, England, Spain and one of the biggest in Italy (they may have been the biggest at the time) plus Chelsea.

Real wanted him to go back before ZZ and PSG would take him in a heart beat.

His achievements are much greater than Pep.

He’s a serial winner and the best “top” manager after Sir Alex.

PSG don't want him now, they did a few years ago but don't want the baggage. And why would they when they have a better manager for now and the future, not the past? And I disagree about Pep. Barca, Bayern and City have all played some of the best football ever seen, football Jose could only dream of, and they still won things. Mourinho hasn't played attractive football since about 2005.

Mourinho was fantastic and ahead of him time between 2002 and 2012, his achievements at Porto and Inter were incredible, but the game has moved on from him now.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

PSG don't want him now, they did a few years ago but don't want the baggage. And why would they when they have a better manager for now and the future, not the past? And I disagree about Pep. Barca, Bayern and City have all played some of the best football ever seen, football Jose could only dream of, and they still won things. Mourinho hasn't played attractive football since about 2005.

Mourinho was fantastic and ahead of him time between 2002 and 2012, his achievements at Porto and Inter were incredible, but the game has moved on from him now.

Just a quick glance

EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

LMA Performances of the Week:

2 December 2017 (Arsenal 1–3 Man.Utd),
7 April 2018 (Man.City 2–3 Man.Utd)

 

[Farehamseagull]

Just a quick glance

EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

LMA Performances of the Week:

2 December 2017 (Arsenal 1–3 Man.Utd),
7 April 2018 (Man.City 2–3 Man.Utd)

Sorry, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm genuinely not sure? The Community Shield

 

[Gwylan]

Mourinho hasn't played attractive football since about 2005.

Someone else who thinks that a team that scores more than a 120 goals in a season isn't playing attractive football. What planet are these people from?

 

[Icy Gull]

Someone else who thinks that a team that scores more than a 120 goals in a season isn't playing attractive football. What planet are these people from?

Have you actually watched United whilst Mourinho has been managing them? Apart from the City and Liverpool games when have they looked like the United team of SAF.

Mourinho’s United grind out games. Liverpool, City and, though it pains me to say it, Bournemouth play what I call attractive football, United don’t anymore 90% of the time.

 

[Mellotron]

Mourinho was fantastic and ahead of him time between 2002 and 2012, his achievements at Porto and Inter were incredible, but the game has moved on from him now.

This. To have a spend of around £450m and have one of your main plans be to lump it up to Lukaku and Fellaini is embarrassing.

Also the way he treated Luke Shaw when he came out as having depression was utterly shameful. The man is a ****.

Pretty sure that most agree also that his Chelsea 1-0 team were solid, professional and clinical but ****ing boring too. Difference is he used to be charming then.

The Football Ramble picked up on when "the change" occurred - ie when he became this bitter, nasty person he is now. It's when Pep pipped him to the Barcelona job that he thought he had a divine right to. Their podcast on him is fascinating.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I'm genuinely not sure? The Community Shield

What do you think?

Brighton are proud of their win in 1910, so don't diss it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

PSG don't want him now, they did a few years ago but don't want the baggage. And why would they when they have a better manager for now and the future, not the past? And I disagree about Pep. Barca, Bayern and City have all played some of the best football ever seen, football Jose could only dream of, and they still won things. Mourinho hasn't played attractive football since about 2005.

Mourinho was fantastic and ahead of him time between 2002 and 2012, his achievements at Porto and Inter were incredible, but the game has moved on from him now.

Peps managed the biggest club in Spain -
The biggest and richest by far in Germany
The richest in England which already have Augero/KDB etc

It’s Football manager on cheat mode.

I’m certain if Jose was on the market most clubs would be interested.

 

[Icy Gull]

Peps managed the biggest club in Spain -
The biggest and richest by far in Germany
The richest in England

It’s Football manager on cheat mode

Yeah but don’t his teams play good football and win lots of trophies? He is the best so he gets the best jobs, simple really.

He could manage us with his no dickheads policy too.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yeah but don’t his teams play good football and win lots of trophies? He is the best so he gets the best jobs, simple really.

He could manage us with his no dickheads policy too.

That Barca team he had couldn’t fail, I’m not saying he isn’t a good manager - but he is massively overrated when judging him against Jose.