[Politics] Brexit

[melias shoes]

Still looking for any PROOF of the 80% of the brexit documentation being complete...

Look a bit harder. It's there for all to see.

 

[pastafarian]

Extract from article in today's Guardian. I know it's all be said before but there is a kind of remorseless irrationality in the arguments of those who assume that somehow we are being ripped off and inhibited by remaining in the customs union and single market and this little extract captures the situation rather well:

'Liam Fox can usually be relied upon to chime in with the assertion that 90% of global growth in the coming decade will be outside the EU. This is a popular Brexiteer statistic because it implies that the UK has made the far-sighted choice, switching out of the 10% European slow lane. That would be true if EU membership prohibited access to all other markets – if you could ship goods either within the EU or outside it, but never both. Plainly that is nonsense. Germany’s biggest trading partner is China. Berlin does not see its regulatory obligations to the single market as a brake on global exports.

Of all the nonsensical Brexit ideas to have acquired respectability through sheer force of repetition by Tory MPs, perhaps the flimsiest is this false dichotomy of “global” trade and EU membership. The common external tariff prevents EU members from signing bilateral agreements, but the compensation is being party to deals that Europeans negotiate as a bloc and, thanks to the sheer scale of the single market, on terms befitting an economic superpower. About 49% of Britain’s trade is currently with the EU. Another 12% is with 65 non-EU states that have free-trade agreements with Brussels. The most recent, with Japan, was signed in July this year.

There is no system for replicating those agreements after Brexit. Fox has racked up thousands of air miles crossing the Atlantic and the Pacific, eliciting bland statements of goodwill from overseas counterparts. But the number of deals he has successfully negotiated is a fat zero.'

I am not surprised in the slightest the number of bilateral trade deals with other countries that Liam Fox has concluded is zero. I am surprised the guardian seems surprised/shocked, especially when only a few lines earlier it says “The common external tariff prevents EU members from signing bilateral agreements”.
I was just going to put it down as abysmal reporting, but since you reposted here and must agree with it, how is Liam Fox supposed to raise the level of successfully negotiated trade deals from zero to anything amounting higher whilst we are still members of the EU…….feel free to agree its crap reporting.

 

[pastafarian]

I am asking the people on here who made the claim for their sauce and citation.

Still looking for any PROOF .

Ok, so not “still looking” at all as you never started looking if 80% is true in the first place.Asking someone else is not looking yourself
10/10 for being lazy. You really are the standard bearer of the millennial who only ever believes what someone tells you and are incapable of looking up information yourself to assess its validity.
The idiot twitter generation is truly upon us. What a worrying example of the future you are.

 

[pastafarian]

Look a bit harder. It's there for all to see.

Feel a bit sorry for the lad, another remainer did point out to him it was true, yet he refuses to believe it.
The rest of the remainers wont help him out at all and let him continue to make himself look silly.............they prefer the lie to the truth though at all costs.
Such is #projectwejustmakeshitupnowandhopepeoplebuyourlies

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I am not surprised in the slightest the number of bilateral trade deals with other countries that Liam Fox has concluded is zero. I am surprised the guardian seems surprised/shocked, especially when only a few lines earlier it says “The common external tariff prevents EU members from signing bilateral agreements”.
I was just going to put it down as abysmal reporting, but since you reposted here and must agree with it, how is Liam Fox supposed to raise the level of successfully negotiated trade deals from zero to anything amounting higher whilst we are still members of the EU…….feel free to agree its crap reporting.

I'm not surprised that you only choose to contest one of the points made in the article and so (imitating your own style) I'll state that I assume this means that you are comfortable with the rest of the article (of course you are not, but I thought you'd appreciate the homage to 'Pasta-ism').

Now I'm going to adopt a style diametrically opposed to your and say that yes, you have a point. He can't of course be expected at this stage to have 'negotiated' anything. But point-scoring aside, it is a bit scary that we've had NOTHING by way of hints or feedback from any of his efforts? At least Mrs May's trip to Africa has delivered something - which in today's headlines added up to making it easier for African nations to export to us,

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

PS to Mr Pasta: So - to bounce back your point - where are these new markets going to come from? How much extra trade will they generate? How long will it take to implement any such deals? Were I in your shoes, I'd not really showcase the 'new opportunities outwith the EU' as a strong part of my case for leaving and I suspect that you are bright enough to know this. By your own logic we will get to a no-deal leaving day with nothing negotiated to replace lost trade with the EU. That's nothing to feel comfortable about.

 

[pastafarian]

Let's be sensible about this and I agree take some of the emotion and rhetoric out of it - eg 'the easiest deal in history', which still stands as one of the most irresponsible utterances of any British politician since 'peace in our time'.

Shouldnt you apply your own logic to emotion and rhetoric. The easiest deal in history was, unless you have been completely brainwashed a reference to a free trade agreement after we have left the EU.
We havnt left yet and negotiations on a free trade agreement obviously havnt started, what we have is a political framework discussion for the future.
How are you so sure that once we have left, via an agreed withdrawal agreement and an agreed future framework agreement that a free trade agreement wont be easy to conclude afterwards.
How is it you can claim something now, before it has begun or concluded is ."the most irresponsible utterances of any British politician since 'peace in our time"........not sure you really understand what it is you are commentating on.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm not surprised that you only choose to contest one of the points made in the article and so (imitating your own style) I'll state that I assume this means that you are comfortable with the rest of the article (of course you are not, but I thought you'd appreciate the homage to 'Pasta-ism').

Now I'm going to adopt a style diametrically opposed to your and say that yes, you have a point. He can't of course be expected at this stage to have 'negotiated' anything. But point-scoring aside, it is a bit scary that we've had NOTHING by way of hints or feedback from any of his efforts? At least Mrs May's trip to Africa has delivered something - which in today's headlines added up to making it easier for African nations to export to us,

But we have had hints and feedback that countries are keen to engage with us when the time comes.......you saying there has been NOTHING is not true

 

[pastafarian]

PS to Mr Pasta: So - to bounce back your point - where are these new markets going to come from? How much extra trade will they generate? How long will it take to implement any such deals? Were I in your shoes, I'd not really showcase the 'new opportunities outwith the EU' as a strong part of my case for leaving and I suspect that you are bright enough to know this. By your own logic we will get to a no-deal leaving day with nothing negotiated to replace lost trade with the EU. That's nothing to feel comfortable about.

Thats your logic not mine, no need to put words in my mouth

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Really? Seriously? OK, whatever.

Perhaps I didn't punctuate my sentence well. I meant there are others on the same page abusing other posters, and there have been for a long time (several that I have now blocked) on this thread, but they are still allowed to post on it. I'm not saying that the clamp should not be barred from the thread. He should be. But so should others. Ahem, I would have thought you'd have had the brains to work that out

 

[pastafarian]

yes, you have a point. He can't of course be expected at this stage to have 'negotiated' anything. ,

As i said, abysmal journalism

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Shouldnt you apply your own logic to emotion and rhetoric. The easiest deal in history was, unless you have been completely brainwashed a reference to a free trade agreement after we have left the EU.
We havnt left yet and negotiations on a free trade agreement obviously havnt started, what we have is a political framework discussion for the future.
How are you so sure that once we have left, via an agreed withdrawal agreement and an agreed future framework agreement that a free trade agreement wont be easy to conclude afterwards.
How is it you can claim something now, before it has begun or concluded is ."the most irresponsible utterances of any British politician since 'peace in our time"........not sure you really understand what it is you are commentating on.

Many politicians say silly things. Literally he did say 'after we leave' but it was in the context of talking about the Brexit negotiations - which of course (by definition) take place before we leave. Surely he didn't think that such negotiation would be post-facto. Mind you given that his mate Dave only showed up for 4 hours of formal negotiation then maybe that did reflect a certain complacency? If you really think it was prudent for him to say this then fair enough; there are many revisionist historians who would be rather more generous to Chamberlain too. As for me I don't think it was Liam's 'finest hour' but I'm still waiting for him to have one. You can't be happy with the way things have been conducted, surely? (Sorry: silly question.)

 

[WATFORD zero]

But we have had hints and feedback that countries are keen to engage with us when the time comes.......you saying there has been NOTHING is not true

Excellent, compelling case. On that basis let's jump

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

As i said, abysmal journalism

OK!

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Excellent, compelling case. On that basis let's jump

I think we need something morsels to feast on!

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think we need something morsels to feast on!

I wonder if pastafarian would like me to try and find out if any of my ex associates are now in DIT (I've been retired a long time and people move around a lot)

 

[pastafarian]

Many politicians say silly things. Literally he did say 'after we leave' but it was in the context of talking about the Brexit negotiations - which of course (by definition) take place before we leave. Surely he didn't think that such negotiation would be post-facto. Mind you given that his mate Dave only showed up for 4 hours of formal negotiation then maybe that did reflect a certain complacency? If you really think it was prudent for him to say this then fair enough; there are many revisionist historians who would be rather more generous to Chamberlain too. As for me I don't think it was Liam's 'finest hour' but I'm still waiting for him to have one. You can't be happy with the way things have been conducted, surely? (Sorry: silly question.)

Um no, that is wrong, it was in the context of free trade agreement after we leave not the brexit negotiations,some people are still incapable of separating the two
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history

 

[pastafarian]

I wonder if pastafarian would like me to try and find out if any of my ex associates are now in DIT (I've been retired a long time and people move around a lot)

You can invent as many people as you like chap, doesnt bother me. [MENTION=240]larus[/MENTION] will still turn you inside out on your fanciful imaginations.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You can invent as many people as you like chap, doesnt bother me. [MENTION=240]larus[/MENTION] will still turn you inside out on your fanciful imaginations.

Normally, I wouldn't bother, but after you have spent yet another night 'nuts deep in Battlefield 1 with my boys', your puff and your porn, and then come on here trying to tell people what you 'think' is happening in a Government department, I feel almost duty bound to correct you

And that will be the Larus who has U-turned on Borders and Customs this week

 

[pastafarian]

Normally, I wouldn't bother, but after you have spent yet another night 'nuts deep in Battlefield 1 with my boys', your puff and your porn, and then come on here trying to tell people what you 'think' is happening in a Government department, I feel almost duty bound to correct you

Ok, none of that happened last night, feel free to invent away and you havnt corrected anything

And that will be the Larus who has U-turned on Borders and Customs this week

Continue inventing away, doesnt bother me in the slightest