[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Right, so you're saying that the Baltic states and Cyprus would probably have benefited from being part of the EU. Fair enough. That doesn't mean it helped us though.

I've nothing against that concept either, but again I don't think that really applies to u

Well obviously, but I don't see what that has to do with us and the EU?

Peace in Europe has undoubtedly helped "us", look what the last war did to us, even if you dismiss the loss of life, we are still paying the debt today.

 

[Berty23]

There is going to be a vote on the final deal, in Parliament.

Why don't we ask parliament whether to have another referendum. They were not trusted to decide re membership so why do we trust them on this? Granted we live in a parliamentary democracy but that has been forgotten

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Gained their trust! My personal view is that we've always been treated like shit by the EU (and EEC). When we got rid of CJD the French still refused to accept our beef, despite the laws that said they had to. We got screwed over by the common agricultural policy, the EU let Spain over-fish. The EU want our money and that's where their interest in us ends. Gained their ****ing trust

Yes, we have been treated badly, but we have been 'in it' since the early 70s. It didn't start when Tony Blair got elected (despte what some imagine). When we joined we did not hit the ground running. Arguably we never hit the ground at all. Failure to engage is not ever going to produce results. We have always acted like we are doing the EEC/EU a big favour by engaging from time to time - until Maggie started swinging her handbag. Those who did engage (we have provided commisioners) operated so far under the radar that who knows what they did - for the UK (nothing I'd wager). The general relationship has been awful for so long I can perfectly well understand why people voted to leave. I find it saddening, not least because we are now going to be punished for leaving. I am someone who would need to be in a very dire situation to consider 'ending it all', and consider that when something is broke it should be fixed. Sadly we have opted for 'suicide' in this instance, yet now expect Fox and Davis to magic up a virtual resurrection (because France is still there across the Channel, and the world moves on). And 35 thousand posts later we still have no idea what to expect. Oh well. I guess I'll leave this thread for a few more weeks...

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Nope, you just misinterpreted my post. 'We' weren't talking about anything. I was just continuing a tit for tat point scoring exercise with MoS he first mentioned the term patriot.

Looking back, I see that I didn't misinterpret your post at all. But I understand why you might want to say I did. The question at the end though - are you now saying that any party that feels the electorate should be offered a different EU policy (soft Brexit or non Brexit perhaps) to the one being pursued by Downing Street can indeed be among your legions of true democrats?

 

[Triggaaar]

Peace in Europe has undoubtedly helped "us"

Sure, but we haven't needed to be in the EU for that.

 

[Baldseagull]

Sorry, typo. I wasn't referring to the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia (which were), I was referring to the former Yugoslav republics.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

And the break up of Yugoslavia shows what can happen when a union of states breaks down.

 

[Jim D]

And the break up of Yugoslavia shows what can happen when a union of states breaks down.

Are you saying Merkel is equal to Milosovic?

 

[Two Professors]

They are EU workers. I think what your post shows, among a few things, is that in your rush to insult Corbyn and impress yourself, you didn't realise the facts of the matter.

Oh,sorry.I didn't realise that Australia and Canada had joined the EU.I bow to your superior knowledge

 

[The Clamp]

Oh,sorry.I didn't realise that Australia and Canada had joined the EU.I bow to your superior knowledge

McDonalds workers in the UK are striking. Are you a wind up merchant or genuinely this stupid?

 

[Two Professors]

McDonalds workers in the UK are striking. Are you a wind up merchant or genuinely this stupid?

You're in too much of a rush to insult me.Find out where some of those workers are from first,you dimwit

 

[The Clamp]

You're in too much of a rush to insult me.Find out where some of those workers are from first,you dimwit

The question raised concerns those McDonald's workers hailing from the UK. I despair of you. Thick doesn't begin to cover it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Looking back, I see that I didn't misinterpret your post at all. But I understand why you might want to say I did. The question at the end though - are you now saying that any party that feels the electorate should be offered a different EU policy (soft Brexit or non Brexit perhaps) to the one being pursued by Downing Street can indeed be among your legions of true democrats?

Cobblers .. you jumped in with both feet after misinterpreting my point I was discussing the likely parliamentary fall out of Labours U turn and how some Remainers might view this change as a good oppurtunity to keep us in. The links I provided suggested Labours cynical change of position is unlikely to have the desired result re parliamentary arithmetic. This I viewed as good for democrats (people who accept we are leaving/ respect the referendum result) and patriots which alluded to a comment MoS made previously.

I know you don't like facing up to the inherently undemocratic and extreme position you have chosen but that's your problem, not mine.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This ignores the fact that the EU has only recently agreed free trade deals with Canada, South Korea and Japan. The EU has also provisional free trade agreements in place with most of the African nations, Central and South America, Singapore and Vietnam. These will all come onstream in the next few years, so the UK would have been able to conduct free trade with these countries whilst still remaining in the Single Market.

By leaving we will have to negotiate them ourselves, thus missing out many years of free trade had we remained in the EU.

David Cameron's Referendum campaign was so bad he neglected to mention the plethora of free trade deals that the EU was negotiating at that time that the UK stood to benefit from, while Leave painted the EU as tying our hands and restricting our ability to get free trade deals with Non-EU countries. It is a crying shame that those deals have already been struck by the EU, but who knew??

It's taken them a ridiculously long time to negotiate these agreements which has been a major downside of EU membership. It took the EU five years longer than Switzerland to complete a trade deal with South Korea. Having to accommodate 29 countries positions instead of 2, many in direct opposition to our national interests. Admittedly we lose out because accessing the EU single market is more desirable so more concessions are likely to be forthcoming but at least our trade deals will be 100% focussed on achieving our trade goals.

I thought our position was looking to maintain current EU trade arrangements with third countries after we have left. Then re negotiating changes or new deals if needed. This has not been ruled out as far as I am aware so it's not clear cut that we will lose out.

He probably didn't make a virtue of all the impending trade deals because of how long they take to be fully signed off or derailed by some provincial parliament in outer Walloon having a veto over the final deal.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Dreamland please wake up. Cameron tried and returned with his tail between his legs. Queen Merkel will not relinquish any power to anybody else

Shortsighted - Please wake up. I'm not talking about Cameron. I'm talking about going back 20 or 30 years, before cameron, before Merkel. It's called historical perspective.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I think what the previous poster means is if we had engaged when we joined, gained their trust, attended the committee meetings etc. Our way have dealing with the EU has for decades been like the way we deal with FIFA (just letting others get on with it, treating it with disdain, then periodically throwing toys out of pram when we don't get our way - no world cup in England, etc). Of course Cameron was shooed away. We have left it all too late. Anyway, we are leaving now so we will soon have our country back, and will be able to make up our own rules. We don't actually need to negociate anything, surely?

He's got it, by Jove he's got it, as Dr Dolittle night have said. That's just about exactly what I meant.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

the question raised concerns those mcdonald's workers hailing from the uk. I despair of you. Thick doesn't begin to cover it.

pear jam anyone
regards
DR

 

[clippedgull]

Oh,sorry.I didn't realise that Australia and Canada had joined the EU.I bow to your superior knowledge

Keep up! Australia are in the Eurovision song contest now.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The working class, the poor and those in poverty in Britain benefited hugely from the EU. Make no mistake, they would not have had the assistance if we had not joined the EU. 100's of millions of pounds of investment is about to be pulled out from some of our most impoverished regions and our country's poorest are about to be set back decades.
Most don't realise this because most people have no clue as to how EU funds are allocated. Most middle class white people aren't aware of this because they don't see any of it because they don't need it.
A lot of people that receive it don't know about it because they have been brainwashed by the likes of Farage telling them foreigners have taken all their jobs and are ruining the NHS. They'll soon find out.

don't think so , most can see for themselves thank you
regards
DR

 

[studio150]

Desperate times at #10 no strategy and no understanding on what Business prefers

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ftse-100-chiefs-fury-at-no-10-letter-backing-ministers-on-brexit-11023229

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Desperate times at #10 no strategy and no understanding on what Business prefers

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ftse-100-chiefs-fury-at-no-10-letter-backing-ministers-on-brexit-11023229

MORE LIKE WHAT WE PREFER, you just carry on waving your white flag
regards
DR