[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

I suspect you are correct, and am able to discern that you are not suggesting that I am all, or any, of those things.

When someone suggests that thick racists voted leave, many leave voting posters on here seem to take that as a comment that they, or even all of the leave voters are thick racists, which to me suggests that they are maybe, a bit thick.

Makes you wonder why some people do seem to delight in going on about the background of some leave voters if it provokes such a reaction .. doesn't it?

 

[The Rivet]

The whole 'lefty-thinking' world is shrinking, fast.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Utterly extraordinary. My reference to the fact that most Leave voters voted as they did was in specific reference to Burnley. Burnley for heaven's sake. Further, I made it entirely clear that the point was based on a vox pop interview with a handful of people in that benighted place. I used the turn of phrase that the programme wasn't saying anything that we didn't know anyway but for you to conflate that bit of common English usage into a claim from me that I definitely knew why most people in the entire country voted is as barmy as it is misleading. I stick with my view - people voted Leave for all sorts of reasons. It does not conflict with anything else I said. I also think that it is reasonable to say that people in depressed areas had additional reasons to stick their fingers up at the establishment. I'm spending a night in Barnsley next weekend - a profoundly pro-Brexit town which has been largely unaffected by the EU. We shall spend some time with a man who has spent his life there. I am looking forward to a reasonable conversation with him. I have long given up any hope of having the same with you.

Utterly unconvincing. Slippery.

You really should give up this hilarious, delusional facade that you are only intersted in reasonable debate. You are as partisan and one eyed as any of the most strident Brexiteers on this thread but unlike you I expect many of them would have moved on from the referendum and accepted the democratic will of the majority if the result had been reversed.

 

[melias shoes]

Utterly unconvincing. Slippery.

You really should give up this hilarious, delusional facade that you are only intersted in reasonable debate. You are as partisan and one eyed as any of the most strident Brexiteers on this thread but unlike you I expect many of them would have moved on from the referendum and accepted the democratic will of the majority if the result had been reversed.

That's exactly what would have happened but because the withdrawal of the EU is such a long drawn out process the remainers are finding it so hard to accept. Still clinging to hope that perhaps just perhaps they can have the decision overturned. We have to stay in this part we have to stay in that part they .whine. No we don't leavers want out and you cannot ignore the will of the MAJORITY of the people.

Like you said JC if the result had been a win for remain we wouldn't even be having this debate. It would have been business as usual. The EU steam rolling ahead with it's agenda. Don't for one minute think that they wouldn't have punished us for even daring to have a referendum.

Another thing on the day of the referendum it was being widely reported and predicted that we would be staying in the EU. I seem to remember myself and others although disappointed accepting this fact. Then we awoke the next day and BOOM we had voted OUT. So began the collective meltdown. Unable to accept the result the insults started to fly. We all know what they were. Idiots etc,racists etc. Blah blah blah. Time to move on and accept the result.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Less than 16,000 views to the 1 million mark on this thread. Quite remarkable.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt the insults and straw clutching with that observation. As you were.

 

[melias shoes]

Less than 16,000 views to the 1 million mark on this thread. Quite remarkable.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt the insults and straw clutching with that observation. As you were.

 

[The Clamp]

Most lefties are hypocrites.Whinging on the anti-Trump thread about dropping the bomb on Japan during WW2 and it was a Democrat President who ordered it dropped!

I think it's fair to say that offering up the actions of the democrats as an indirect argument in support of Trump is largely redundant. Trump and his insane actions are apart from republican or democrat. He's his own exclusive kind of bonkers.

 

[The Clamp]

That's exactly what would have happened but because the withdrawal of the EU is such a long drawn out process the remainers are finding it so hard to accept. Still clinging to hope that perhaps just perhaps they can have the decision overturned. We have to stay in this part we have to stay in that part they .whine. No we don't leavers want out and you cannot ignore the will of the MAJORITY of the people.

Like you said JC if the result had been a win for remain we wouldn't even be having this debate. It would have been business as usual. The EU steam rolling ahead with it's agenda. Don't for one minute think that they wouldn't have punished us for even daring to have a referendum.

Another thing on the day of the referendum it was being widely reported and predicted that we would be staying in the EU. I seem to remember myself and others although disappointed accepting this fact. Then we awoke the next day and BOOM we had voted OUT. So began the collective meltdown. Unable to accept the result the insults started to fly. We all know what they were. Idiots etc,racists etc. Blah blah blah. Time to move on and accept the result.

Time for you to move on more like. Most leave voters seem to understand delicate, drawn out negotiations are required. Most leave voters, although more than pleased with the result recognise that it should have been far better planned.
These leave voters recognise that the discussion has moved on and are happy to engage with remainers in discussion/debate/speculation on what may happen next.
But the few on this thread that could easily leave the thread now they have made the same, relentless, tedious point over and over prefer to linger and keep repeating "we're leaving soppy bollocks" "leave means leave" etc ad infinitum.
Yes. We understand that we're discussing how and what it means. Bores like you and PPF butting in and repeating your comfort phrases over and over are very much the ones that need to move on.

 

[One Love]

Most lefties are hypocrites.Whinging on the anti-Trump thread about dropping the bomb on Japan during WW2 and it was a Democrat President who ordered it dropped!

You are absolutely bonkers. The stuff you make up in your own head

 

[sir albion]

The whole 'lefty-thinking' world is shrinking, fast.

Absolutely.....These types really do live in a fantasy world and can never be wrong and always play the god like guilt trip to get their way.
They would love the whole world to have open borders and believe that world peace is near....Christ if they ran every country everyone would be killing each other at a rate of knots.

Humans are the same as animals to a certain extent as no way could many animals live together in peace and would certainly kill each other.

To many gods,religions and cultures etc to be a peaceful world...

 

[GT49er]

You are absolutely bonkers. The stuff you make up in your own head

Reality check.......


It was a democratic president (Truman) who sanctioned the use of the atom bomb against Japan. But hey, don't let inconvenient facts get in the way, eh?

 

[melias shoes]

Time for you to move on more like. Most leave voters seem to understand delicate, drawn out negotiations are required. Most leave voters, although more than pleased with the result recognise that it should have been far better planned.
These leave voters recognise that the discussion has moved on and are happy to engage with remainers in discussion/debate/speculation on what may happen next.
But the few on this thread that could easily leave the thread now they have made the same, relentless, tedious point over and over prefer to linger and keep repeating "we're leaving soppy bollocks" "leave means leave" etc ad infinitum.
Yes. We understand that we're discussing how and what it means. Bores like you and PPF butting in and repeating your comfort phrases over and over are very much the ones that need to move on.

Thanks for your input.

 

[melias shoes]

Time for you to move on more like. Most leave voters seem to understand delicate, drawn out negotiations are required. Most leave voters, although more than pleased with the result recognise that it should have been far better planned.
These leave voters recognise that the discussion has moved on and are happy to engage with remainers in discussion/debate/speculation on what may happen next.
But the few on this thread that could easily leave the thread now they have made the same, relentless, tedious point over and over prefer to linger and keep repeating "we're leaving soppy bollocks" "leave means leave" etc ad infinitum.
Yes. We understand that we're discussing how and what it means. Bores like you and PPF butting in and repeating your comfort phrases over and over are very much the ones that need to move on.

Still going on about the same boring delusional facts. Move on.

 

[Soulman]

Time for you to move on more like. Most leave voters seem to understand delicate, drawn out negotiations are required. Most leave voters, although more than pleased with the result recognise that it should have been far better planned.
These leave voters recognise that the discussion has moved on and are happy to engage with remainers in discussion/debate/speculation on what may happen next.
But the few on this thread that could easily leave the thread now they have made the same, relentless, tedious point over and over prefer to linger and keep repeating "we're leaving soppy bollocks" "leave means leave" etc ad infinitum.
Yes. We understand that we're discussing how and what it means. Bores like you and PPF butting in and repeating your comfort phrases over and over are very much the ones that need to move on.

Nice fictional story, thanks.

 

[The Clamp]

Nice fictional story, thanks.

Thanks for proving me right. And doing so in the style of a 5 year old. Nice touch.

 

[Soulman]

Thanks for proving me right. And doing so in the style of a 5 year old. Nice touch.

Your welcome, if you post a juvenile post then expect a likewise response.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Utterly unconvincing. Slippery.

You really should give up this hilarious, delusional facade that you are only intersted in reasonable debate. You are as partisan and one eyed as any of the most strident Brexiteers on this thread but unlike you I expect many of them would have moved on from the referendum and accepted the democratic will of the majority if the result had been reversed.

It is of limited value to speculate what would have happened if it had been 48-52 the other way but I would have hoped that it would have been a massive wake-up call to remainers like me and should have prompted some major questions to be asked about why so many millions voted to leave. This process would probably have been traumatic given my liberal-leftie cosmopolitan leanings but it would have been the only responsible course of action. I suspect that Cameron in his laziness and arrogance would have carried on as usual and Corbyn will have reached for his 1983-era cliché book but pretending that it was business as usual would have been extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to a large proportion of the population. The one thing that all on the remain side must have realised would be that there would be substantial opposition to any further integration and that, although the remain side won, there is no evidence that a massive majority of remainers would want closer ties with Europe.

In this scenario I would have expected UKIP and other Eurosceptics to be emboldened by the result and see it as a step in the direction of an eventual departure. With every new political development within the EU, security issue etc. they would have said that the conditions had changed and used these as grounds for a further vote. Had a bill been presented that furthered or re-inforced integration I would never expect Carswell or seasoned Tory Eurosceptics to support it. This overall approach would be totally reasonable and consistent with the views of these people and, rather than undermining democracy, would be a healthy exercise of it. I would hope that the response to these continuing leave campaigners would have been to challenge their arguments and not just the ‘sit down, shut up’ which we see so much of now.

 

[The Clamp]

Your welcome, if you post a juvenile post then expect a likewise response.

I expect nothing else from you.


Tatty bye.

 

[The Clamp]

Still going on about the same boring delusional facts. Move on.

There is nothing in your response that makes sense, grammatically or factually. You should work on that.

 

[melias shoes]

It is of limited value to speculate what would have happened if it had been 48-52 the other way but I would have hoped that it would have been a massive wake-up call to remainers like me and should have prompted some major questions to be asked about why so many millions voted to leave. This process would probably have been traumatic given my liberal-leftie cosmopolitan leanings but it would have been the only responsible course of action. I suspect that Cameron in his laziness and arrogance would have carried on as usual and Corbyn will have reached for his 1983-era cliché book but pretending that it was business as usual would have been extremely irresponsible and disrespectful to a large proportion of the population. The one thing that all on the remain side must have realised would be that there would be substantial opposition to any further integration and that, although the remain side won, there is no evidence that a massive majority of remainers would want closer ties with Europe.

In this scenario I would have expected UKIP and other Eurosceptics to be emboldened by the result and see it as a step in the direction of an eventual departure. With every new political development within the EU, security issue etc. they would have said that the conditions had changed and used these as grounds for a further vote. Had a bill been presented that furthered or re-inforced integration I would never expect Carswell or seasoned Tory Eurosceptics to support it. This overall approach would be totally reasonable and consistent with the views of these people and, rather than undermining democracy, would be a healthy exercise of it. I would hope that the response to these continuing leave campaigners would have been to challenge their arguments and not just the ‘sit down, shut up’ which we see so much of now.

Appreciate your points. However no matter how hard you try to gloss over it ,it would have been business as usual.