[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/04/court-ruling-reinforces-brexit-withdraw-eu

IMHO Simon Jenkins is right. May should forget the appeal to the Supreme Court and seek a vote soonest. And this was in the Guardian.....

yep, crack on with it, appeal just delays the inevitable as there is nothing going to change the legality of parliament vs royal prerogative.

 

[Surf's Up]

Unfortunately what the Brexiteers dont seem to underestand is that this is likely to be the first of many challenges to the process of Brexit resulting in increasing delays and the emergence of a much clearer picture of the real mess they have committed this country to and culminating in either a final vote in parliament which will completely reject the negotiated package or a further referendum if parliament dont have the bottle to take the decision themselves which will throw out the deal once and forever.

 

[lawros left foot]

Yes he did. I was wrong to call him a committed remainer and it is only right that I admit my mistake.

You'll never be a politician if you do that.

 

[W.C.]

True, just look at the hate spewed by Corbyn's Labour Party and his Momentum groupies. Already one elderly antiques dealer has been battered to death for being "Tory Scum" as his killer described him. Another man was murdered by his neighbour just for mentioning he'd voted Leave.

oh, good job. Nicely done.

 

[spring hall convert]

yep, crack on with it, appeal just delays the inevitable as there is nothing going to change the legality of parliament vs royal prerogative.

There could only really be two reasons for appealing this judgement.

a) There is no plan
b) There is a plan and it's shit.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

HaHa, we'll still be talking about Brexit after BHA have won the playoff final.

Very true hope it's automatic promotion though.

Let's hope the clubs footy successes last longer than any chance of Brexit have become!

2019, BHA firmly embedded in the Prem and a thriving prosperous UK finally leaves the EU ...

 

[smeg]

yep, crack on with it, appeal just delays the inevitable as there is nothing going to change the legality of parliament vs royal prerogative.

You may be right there: https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/07/08/thomas-fairclough-article-50-and-the-royal-prerogative/, I guess we will have to wait and see but it livened up the debate on a wet friday.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Vote for Brexit ... plus 2nd in the league after a cracking result last Saturday ... possibly best year ever!

Finally, something we can agree on. Albion's success is a shining light amongst all the gloom.

I missed the Norwich game, unfortunately, as I was in another part of the Union, beautiful France, lapping up the sunshine

 

[KVLT]

I believe people voted to exit the EU and the Single Market, with all the associated Treaty obligations. I think it is a leap to say that they were voting for anything else. The Leave Campaign wasn't exactly ambiguous on those points at least.

Despite recently resigned Tory Stephen Phillips himself having voted for a different version of leave to what you are suggesting.

"Last month the MP wrote an article in which he said said he hoped that after Brexit Britain would "remain in the single market to which the manifesto of every major political party at the last election committed us".

 

[beorhthelm]

There could only really be two reasons for appealing this judgement.

a) There is no plan
b) There is a plan and it's shit.

i dont buy in to "no plan" as its been months now and they would have put civil servants to work devising plans and permtations. there maybe some conflict over best approach, or simply not wanting to declare their intentions everyone to rack over and oppose for the sake of opposing (cf McDonnells reaction to Nissan). i think its simple stubborness, with a dose of keeping the brexiteers on side so as not to look like they are wavering. this is also why i dont expect any GE, because there is no way you can get the other side of an election and suddenly have unity on the matter, all the same issues will be bubbling away.

 

[BBassic]

If, hypothetically, the government were to win the appeal and then a further appeal was lodged against that appeal would all the people frothing at the mouth about this vote turn around and start banging on about accepting the judgement etc ?

 

[spring hall convert]

i dont buy in to "no plan" as its been months now and they would have put civil servants to work devising plans and permtations. there maybe some conflict over best approach, or simply not wanting to declare their intentions everyone to rack over and oppose for the sake of opposing (cf McDonnells reaction to Nissan). i think its simple stubborness, with a dose of keeping the brexiteers on side so as not to look like they are wavering. this is also why i dont expect any GE, because there is no way you can get the other side of an election and suddenly have unity on the matter, all the same issues will be bubbling away.

I was being a little glib. I actually agree with you. I suspect the fear of the big reveal is dissent from within as opposed to outside the party.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

This is just one long descent into unhappiness. On the part of the Remainers, sad that we are leaving. On the part of the Leavers, sad that it is not giving them what they wanted when they voted to Leave. On the part of everybody as the country continues to be riven by disagreement and acrimony for years to come.

 

[Soulman]

Leaving the EU = taking back control is simplistic bollocks. The idea that the EU controlled our laws is a complete deceit.

Staying in the single market, retaining free movement, remaining within the customs union...all vital if the country is not to go even further down the pan.

God, 2016 has been shit.

Why has 2016 been shit, how has the vote leave affected you.

 

[smeg]

Despite recently resigned Tory Stephen Phillips himself having voted for a different version of leave to what you are suggesting.

"Last month the MP wrote an article in which he said said he hoped that after Brexit Britain would "remain in the single market to which the manifesto of every major political party at the last election committed us".

Which in a nutshell is the problem here, the leavers have their own flavour of how it should be with no consensus, basically i'd be surprised if you voted leave whether you will actually be happy with the outcome. I suppose the remainers are just casual bystanders now, we had our say and lost, we should just leave them to it, right?

 

[The Clamp]

Why has 2016 been shit, how has the vote leave affected you.

 

[smeg]

Why has 2016 been shit, how has the vote leave affected you.

Not been a great year for going on holiday, my retirement plans, my daughters future or for politics in general. On a brighter note I've had a few polish builders round and the house now looks lovely.

 

[Soulman]

Not been a great year for going on holiday, my retirement plans, my daughters future or for politics in general. On a brighter note I've had a few polish builders round and the house now looks lovely.

Obviously had a bit of cash spare then for the home improvements. Surely as you "knew" post Brexit the country would implode you would have the sense to book an all inclusive pre Brexit.

 

[drew]

you think that once negotiations are formally in place with EU that there will be secrecy for the next two years? lol. all that is happening here is that some reluctant remainers and Labour in particular want to be part of the process, to pretend they have relevance to the process. no doubt they really want is a lovely Brexit committee where they can ruminate on 30 points of detail every day. though i believe the government should be giving an outline strategy, they are right to not want to have running commentry in what they plan to propose to EU, their negotiating strategy or what their red lines are. this will emerge in the fullness of time, pretty much within a month of article 50. no point saying now "we are going to deliver [Mohs] Brexit" and have months of complaining thats the wrong sort before we've even begun talking with the EU.

Are you saying that within a month of invoking Article 50 there will be clear indication as to which way the Government is heading, ie hard of soft. Surely that is a fundamental issue that could be discussed before invoking the article so that the negotiators have the backing of Parliament. I don't think anyone is really concerned about the minutiae of discussions but the overall objective is relevant.

 

[JCL666]

There could only really be two reasons for appealing this judgement.

a) There is no plan
b) There is a plan and it's shit.

This is from an FB post by a QC.

The actual post is a lot longer, so I've just included this bit as I think it's relevant to your hypothesis on why they would appeal.

"The triggering of Article 50 requires an Act of Parliament, passed by both Houses. That even someone with the experience of Ken Clarke believed that a resolution of just the House of Commons would be sufficient, demonstrates the lack of understanding of the processes involved.

What will the Act look like? If it is to enshrine the "sort of Brexit" that will be acceptable before Article 50 is triggered this would be almost impossible to achieve, because it would be reliant on various pre-conditions which could never be delivered because there can be no pre-negotiations with the EU. There would be so many sunrise clauses that we would be living in perpetual daylight. If the leavers believe that the decision of the Court makes Brexit less likely, they are right."

In other words. Defining an acceptable Act of Parliament that will trigger Article 50 is a nightmare. Hence why a successful appeal would appear desirable.