The Albion and Southern Trains

[Uncle Buck]

It's already having an impact on gates. The club are having to be content with the scraps thrown from SASTA's (time)table. People are finding ways round it, or not bothering going. IMHO, replacing much of the car parking capacity with coach parking capacity would allow very worthwhile enterprises such as Seagulls Travel to expand and prosper. There's a very large untapped market in minibuses and 8-seater taxis yet to be explored. Why not let people who still want to use the trains take their chances on the normal timetable and pay for it at their own expense. That would only encourage local transport providers who actually deserve the Albion-related business. No reason at all why it shouldn't work. IMHO, like.

Increase the vehicles on the road and the whole place grinds to a stand still.

 

[Guinness Boy]

These questions have probably been asked in the Southern Trains threads but i thought it might be worth pulling it together to see if there is an opportunity for us , the fans, to help exert any pressure and help the club

We have heard little from the club on how they are seeking to address the appalling service from Southern. We all pay an unspecified amount as part of our season tickets to allow the club to subsidise travel, but now the train element is an utter shambles. Does the club pay Southern in advance ?

Commuters have their problems and are taking action to protest about the service, but there are thousands of Albion fans affected by an ongoing shambolic performance but at the moment we are not engaged in any form of action.

So maybe there is something we can do to apply pressure, after all we have a fine history of taking direct action. Perhaps the club could give us a statement on how they are addressing the matter and indicate whether the fans can help in any way.

We need someone High Profile fighting for the customers and getting the government to listen...The trouble with Caroline Lucas doing it is that No one takes her seriously!

Marvellous. Another train thread turned in to another political binfest within two posts. Well done everyone.

 

[bhanutz]

Marvellous. Another train thread turned in to another political binfest within two posts. Well done everyone.

Sorry, are we not allowed to express an opinion?

 

[beorhthelm]

Reckon the club should very publicly sack SASTA as a 'transport partner'. Take the *******s to court for breach of contract and lob a big donation in the direction of the customer-led campaign for a Judicial Review. Seeing as how the club probably wouldn't mind too much if they could reduce the transport subsidy anyway, it would seem to be a win/win. Let SASTA come crawling on much-reduced terms to win back the Albion's business.

i reckon that the club does not have any contract that details specific services beyond the timetable, so they are hostage to the general problems, in particular the peak-only Seaford-Brighton service right now. if they reduce or remove the travel subsidy that means thousands of supporters having to pay full daily fares and lots of hassle match days with ticket inspection, so far from win/win. it seems to me a boat we don't really want the club to rock.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Increase the vehicles on the road and the whole place grinds to a stand still.

Well there's vehicles and there's vehicles. Could still discourage cars easily enough - just by denying them on-site parking facilities - while encouraging P&R and buses and mini-buses and eight-seater taxis and bikes and mopeds and motorbikes and walking.

 

[The Albion Roar]

i reckon that the club does not have any contract that details specific services beyond the timetable, so they are hostage to the general problems, in particular the peak-only Seaford-Brighton service right now. if they reduce or remove the travel subsidy that means thousands of supporters having to pay full daily fares and lots of hassle match days with ticket inspection, so far from win/win. it seems to me a boat we don't really want the club to rock.

Basically this. ^^^

Irrespective of what the club thinks of the whole situation, ultimately they still have to deal with SASTA.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Well there's vehicles and there's vehicles. Could still discourage cars easily enough - just by denying them on-site parking facilities - while encouraging P&R and buses and mini-buses and eight-seater taxis and bikes and mopeds and motorbikes and walking.

So then another group of fans stop coming to the games.

That will work.

 

[Pickles]

You didn't offer an opinion - you stated a fact. i.e. The trouble with Caroline Lucas doing it is that No one takes her seriously!

That's clearly nonsense.

That's a fair enough point.

So is your opinion, on all matters and every post, , inclusive of everyone involved with The Albion Roar, ie, Adie and Phil etc or just you?

 

[The Albion Roar]

Well there's vehicles and there's vehicles. Could still discourage cars easily enough - just by denying them on-site parking facilities - while encouraging P&R and buses and mini-buses and eight-seater taxis and bikes and mopeds and motorbikes and walking.

Encouraging is one thing. Putting that into practice is another thing entirely.

Similarly, the club would need to pay for those extra buses, and P&R sites and so - all the while still needing to pay SASTA (even if it's a reduced amount). The figures wouldn't add up, and the palaver would still mean a drop in attendance figures.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

i reckon that the club does not have any contract that details specific services beyond the timetable, so they are hostage to the general problems, in particular the peak-only Seaford-Brighton service right now. if they reduce or remove the travel subsidy that means thousands of supporters having to pay full daily fares and lots of hassle match days with ticket inspection, so far from win/win. it seems to me a boat we don't really want the club to rock.

Why on earth should the club go cap-in-hand to this most miserable of transport providers so as not to 'rock the boat'? You explicitly pay for your train travel in every other walk of life. Why not for football? Especially as there's many more local transport providers out there who would be more than grateful for the Albion's business.

 

[SUA Seagull]

I'm a recent convert to Seagulls travel. They do a great job IMHO. Although I am spending money I shouldn't have to, which is annoying.

Seagulls Travel do a fabulous job, and the coach driver even held up the Hassocks coach departure time for me by 10 mins last night (to the mild irritation of other passengers) as I stood, totally stressed out on a swealtering train limping along past Burgess Hill, 55 mins late from London. I have now used Seagulls Travel for 5 years and, for 4 years, have had a season ticket with them. True, it is an additional cost I could well do without (I have one for my lad too) but it is definitely a stress reducer and avoids the Brighton-Falmer train melee. I would recommend anyone who can afford it to consider it as an alternative to the p*ss take shambles that is SASTA. I rather like #Tom Hark Preston Park's idea (post #17). Albion should scrap the SASTA deal and instead do a deal with coach operators, which is a far more sustainable transport alternative than the current mess. And SASTA could then never hold us to ransom. What we experienced last night, with cancellations announced after kick off was an utter disgrace, which affected thousands of hard working fans. Absent any assurances of SASTA improvements in the medium term, let alone short term, the club now has to seriously consider how best to mitigate the transport risk. IMHO.

 

[Ernest]

Remember that if the Albion didn't pay Southern they wouldn't care as the revenue goes to the DfT, reading between the lines the contract between SASTA and the Albion is seen as a nuisance to SASTA and costs them a lot for no great reward back.

All the time you get moronic MP's and such repeating the bullshit about unofficial strike action and sickness etc it gives SASTA a get out , which some may need to consider when they see chaos like they did last night. It's nothing to with industrial action by anyone, it's simply a rail company not employing enough staff to cover the needs of operating the timetable and being able to manage disruptions like what happened yesterday.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well there's vehicles and there's vehicles. Could still discourage cars easily enough - just by denying them on-site parking facilities - while encouraging P&R and buses and mini-buses and eight-seater taxis and bikes and mopeds and motorbikes and walking.

The club had to fork out three times the amount of television money, to provide extra transport, and P&R sites for Forest & Rotherham. It's losing enough money as it is now, without that sort of extra expenditure.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Thanks that's a useful summary of what's going on. Would still like the club to say what action they are taking and whether we can help in any way.

I had a conversation with Martin Perry after the Fans Forum.

Bearing in mind it's a deal between two private companies (SASTA and the Albion), I'd doubt it. The club knows what's required to make the system work, but are powerless to a large extent to do anything directly about it, and they are just as frustrated as we are. It's double-lose for the club as (a) the club has to pay tens of thousands in alternative arrangements and (b) it can mean some fans finding the whole escapade a palaver, and not come along - meaning the club misses out on further footfall.

Meanwhile, all the time SASTA are this intransigent, everyone who uses the trains is suffering. The Albion are merely another piece of further collateral damage in the government's war on the unions.

You can lobby your MP; you can lobby the Transport Minister (Chris Grayling); you can lobby the Trains Minister (Paul Maynard); you can write to the CEO of GTR (Charles Horton). However, tens of thousands have done so already, with absolutely no desire on SASTA or the DfT's part to resolve the issue satisfactorily.

The dispute with the unions, incidentally, is a slightly separate issue.

Addtionally - I forgot to mention - Peter Kyle (Hove MP) is chairing an all-party forum in the Houses of Parliament today with, he says, Paul Maynard in attendance to debate the ongoing SASTA nonsense.

Let's hope something good comes out of it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Encouraging is one thing. Putting that into practice is another thing entirely.

Similarly, the club would need to pay for those extra buses, and P&R sites and so

The club would only need to replace the car parking capacity with coach parking capacity and employ (probably less) stewards to police the thing. The buses themselves would be privately run. Just seems to me it needs a seismic shift away from the trains now, maybe permanently. Many Albion catchment areas aren't even adequately served by trains currently anyway, SASTA or no SASTA. Why not nudge the balance in favour of Seagulls Travel-type enterprises, or a fleet of mini-buses going directly from the Amex to the Steine to the Station. It's really not that difficult.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The club had to fork out three times the amount of television money, to provide extra transport, and P&R sites for Forest & Rotherham. It's losing enough money as it is now, without that sort of extra expenditure.

Wouldn't be extra expenditure if they took the money away from SASTA and redistributed it to transport providers who could provide a decent service.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The club would only need to replace the car parking capacity with coach parking capacity and employ (probably less) stewards to police the thing. The buses themselves would be privately run. Just seems to me it needs a seismic shift away from the trains now, maybe permanently. Many Albion catchment areas aren't even adequately served by trains currently anyway, SASTA or no SASTA. Why not nudge the balance in favour of Seagulls Travel-type enterprises, or a fleet of mini-buses going directly from the Amex to the Steine to the Station. It's really not that difficult.

It's expensive, and coach/bus companies will only work on a good profit margin. If I had to get the coach from Newhaven, it would cost me £12 extra a game.
Then you've got to be able to employ drivers who are willing to work late on a weekday night (at overtime rates, probably)

 

[crabface]

surprised us fans didn't come up with any songs about Southern every time the announcement was made.

Even a volley of boo's at the bare minimum.

Its almost like no one cares

I did think it was odd that the crowd didnt really react. Maybe its because people as so used to the shambles of SASTA.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Todays punctuality stats thus far Thameslink Brighton 65%, Gatwick Express 79%, Southern Mainline 73%, coastway 92% (now they are hardly running any trains on it.

Says it all really. Not even close to delivering an already much reduced timetable. Simply unfit for purpose.

 

[HH Brighton]

There are commuter action groups who are constantly lobbying SASTA and the government on this shambles, so to form another group could be counter-productive - or at best add some chaos. There is a newly set-up group called the Association of British Commuters (ABC). The person who started it lives in Brighton, and her name is Summer Dean. I'd suggest starting there, with a view to pointing out the Albion fans' ongoing issues.

Caroline Lucas has been made aware of how potentially dangerous the football service (or lack of) could be, and wrote to SASTA about it. Naturally, as with all things SASTA, she got the usual meaningless platitudes back. The club is also in constant contact with all relevant MPs (Lucas, Kyle, Soames, Herbert etc.) to help alleviate the problem. However, one issue is that while all MPs acknowledge a major problem, the unhelpful contention is that different MPs will have different answers to the problem, depending on which party they're in.

SASTA, meanwhile, really don't want to know. So one thing the ABC are doing is raising funds to pay for a Judicial Review into the government's handling of the omnishambles.

As for the nonsensical twaddle some posters ignorantly post about Caroline Lucas, I'd ignore them; they don't add anything to the issue.

Here is that action group FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/1208771822490198/

They have raised 15k already to seek legal advice from Devonshires Solicitors LLP and specialist counsel on the options for issuing a Judicial Review of the government’s handling of the Southern Rail franchise https://www.crowdjustice.co.uk/case/southernrail/

They need another 10k so a tenner from 1000 odd Albion supporters will see them there.