[Politics] Brexit

[Hamilton]

Perhaps you are right. However the difficulty for your argument is that it is quite conceivable that we could have a Government and a Parliament that has a majority believing in leaving the European Union. Presumably in this scenario you would still hold your passionately held opinions but under your logic you would have to defer to the Government/Parliament view as you would assume they have skills that you and I do not possess.

Not at all. Governments are elected on far broader manifestos than single issues. In this scenario my view would not hold as there would be a broader debate going on about the nature of our health services, schools, the living wage, defence policy, infrastructure, climate change, national taxation - all the issues which we should be holding our MPs to account on.

 

[Hamilton]

You wanted the old relationship to continue, and the new one should be similar. So what exactly is your problem?

Because we won't be inside the club and our influence will have been diminished. We'll have less influence inside the EU, not more.

 

[JCL666]

Actually, that seemed quite level headed.

Are you kidding?

He's just reinforced every negative stereotype possible.

 

[lawros left foot]

Wow, thank you for your message. I guess I know where I stand then. I'm sorry for being so stupid and lacking in critical analytical thinking.

Well, the apology is a start, and thank you for it. Although how much difference it will make now, I'm not really sure.

 

[Hamilton]

Actually, that seemed quite level headed.

You are joking aren't you. Please tell me you do not think that is acceptable.

 

[Guinness Boy]

this narrative that Cameron has played everyone doesnt stack up. he engaged in a referedum to pacify one wing of the party while also trying to silence them. for years, decades, pundits and politicans have discussed the idea that UKIP core message represents a widepread group, only one that they arent willing to sacrifice other policies for. so now we have a dedicated poll on the issue and fine, lo, half the population (that expressed a preference) are indeed against the EU. it has spectacularly blown up in his face, ending his time as PM prematurely, spliting his party further and dividing the country more than it has been on any issue i can think of (maybe trident?). that is not playing a blinder.

Well it would obviously have been better to not have a referendum at all. He engaged in it because it was a vote winner. That alone tells you that he might have had a clue that the result was not a shoe-in. He was leaving anyway so that should tell you that, personally, he has been keeping half an eye on getting out. The Tories have always been divided on Europe, the referendum just showed this to everyone, which again would have been suicidal but for an equally divided Labour Party who are right now tearing themselves apart far quicker than the Tories.

Maybe not a blinder but he's the man who has quietly folded away his cards and walked from the table while all his opponents bet their entire actual houses on the hand, blind.

 

[pb21]

this narrative that Cameron has played everyone doesnt stack up. he engaged in a referedum to pacify one wing of the party while also trying to silence them. for years, decades, pundits and politicans have discussed the idea that UKIP core message represents a widepread group, only one that they arent willing to sacrifice other policies for. so now we have a dedicated poll on the issue and fine, lo, half the population (that expressed a preference) are indeed against the EU. it has spectacularly blown up in his face, ending his time as PM prematurely, spliting his party further and dividing the country more than it has been on any issue i can think of (maybe trident?). that is not playing a blinder.

Dave resigning when he did was the best thing he has ever done.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'd argue that today's Farage speech "You're not laughing now" is the biggest impact speech in British political history since Enoch Powell's "Rivers of blood" speech of 1968.

In it we saw the greatest strengths and the greatest weaknesses of Farage - the clarity of thought and directness of language on the one hand, his ability to personally insult on the other.

Apparently, the 48% who voted REMAIN are not honest, decent people, while the MEPs he was speaking to today "haven't worked in a proper job or done a proper days' work in their lives".

Given that the Euro leaders meet tonight and tomorrow to discuss their stance on Brexit I think Farage undid all of the good work he did in the first part of the speech. By personally insulting MEPs en masse he will have surely only hardened their stance towards Brexit.

I pity Cameron having to explain to the EU leaders what happened in the referendum, especially with Farage's speech ringing in their ears.

 

[Triggaaar]

Are you kidding?

He's just reinforced every negative stereotype possible.

You are joking aren't you. Please tell me you do not think that is acceptable.

This is Nigel Farage we're talking about, and he spoke for 6 minutes. Please list all of the (or at least several) things that he said that are unacceptable.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

https://youtu.be/LSVflGupFnk

Brilliant. As I said before--this guy is really great at making friends.

Now I understand why Angela is so upset and wants to make the conditions of Brexit as harsh on Britain as possible. One German commentator even said that the UK should be treated exactly as other non-EU partners of the Union: Peru, Haiti, Gabon, Bolivia or Belarus.

*grabs more popcorn*

 

[Baldseagull]

One of us clearly doesn't.
I didn't say she could! She can negotiate with us though - nothing will be formally signed, but we can have agreement on a way forward. If the UK and Germany have common ground, it's going to be tricky for the EU to go against it.

If Germany now left the EU, the EU would be over, so obvously the EU can't let that happen and would have to agree to what the UK and Germany say (roughly speaking).

You are a fantasist! No country wants the Union more than Germany, they will not allow Britain to divide it.

[/QUOTE]I think free trade, including services, and free movement of people is fair. I don't think we should settle for less.[/QUOTE]

To supply services like banking to the E.U., guess whose regulations we will be stuck with. To supply goods, product will have to meet E.U. standards, but maybe we can let go of the working time directive whilst making them, and other annoying workers rights, great news!

What are the net benefits of leaving going to be Trig?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not at all. Governments are elected on far broader manifestos than single issues. In this scenario my view would not hold as there would be a broader debate going on about the nature of our health services, schools, the living wage, defence policy, infrastructure, climate change, national taxation - all the issues which we should be holding our MPs to account on.

We certainly should be holding the Government to account on these issues. Are you saying though that under a scenario where a majority of the electorate wants to stay in the EU but a Government takes us out then you would support this as a better option than holding a referendum ? This is not an inconceivable possibility for the future as with Labour in disarray the electorate may increase the next Tory Boris Johnson majority and yet the demographics may switch decisively to Remain if the young bother to vote in numbers. It could then be argued that the Leaving process should be suspended pending a referendum. I am not necessarily arguing for this (you may have noticed that I am a Leave voter !) but I don't agree with your logic.Regardless of your EU views surely you can appreciate the view that constitutional issues should be settled by referendums ?

 

[c0lz]

Because we won't be inside the club and our influence will have been diminished. We'll have less influence inside the EU, not more.

What influence did we have in the EU ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well, the apology is a start, and thank you for it. Although how much difference it will make now, I'm not really sure.

there, we can all get along really, cant we ?

 

[Triggaaar]

You are a fantasist! No country wants the Union more than Germany, they will not allow Britain to divide it.

They want to trade with the UK too, they will not turn a free trade and free movement offer down.

To supply services like banking to the E.U., guess whose regulations we will be stuck with. To supply goods, product will have to meet E.U. standards

So? Did I say that was a problem?

What are the net benefits of leaving going to be Trig?

It's difficult to predict, but I think there's now more chance of EU reform, we are better placed to do trade deals with the global market, we can change our position with the EU at any time, and choose to control immigration if it really gets out of hand, we're not going to be in so much trouble if countries like Greece fail and the Euro collapses.

 

[Bladders]

With respect..what is the point of adding links from an ultra conservative paper in order to make an unbiased post. It only holds as much belief as another poster might by adding links from the Daily Mirror or Guardian.

Would you rather a link form the SUN, or the MIRROR, or EXPRESS or TELEGRAPH?

Which papers are the believable ones then?

Doesn't matter which paper you link on here someone will tell you its not true.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Good for Farage, they won't listen and now I don't care whether they do or not.

 

[Baldseagull]

They want to trade with the UK too, they will not turn a free trade and free movement offer down.

So? Did I say that was a problem?

It's difficult to predict, but I think there's now more chance of EU reform, we are better placed to do trade deals with the global market, we can change our position with the EU at any time, and choose to control immigration if it really gets out of hand, we're not going to be in so much trouble if countries like Greece fail and the Euro collapses.

We may be able to trade better with the rest of the World, everything else is crap.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I wish the Queen would just dissolve parliament and appoint Nicola Sturgeon PM.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

https://youtu.be/LSVflGupFnk

5:36 check out the guy over the no. 123