[Politics] Brexit

[daveinprague]

you need to take that chip off your shoulder
regards
DR

Absolutely no chip, enjoyed pointing out the ridiculous nature of that post.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's a common misconception - and claim from the leave camp - that we have given up our sovereignty. We have not. Sovereignty resides with our UK parliament. At any time, Parliament can choose to vote to leave the EU. They don't need a referendum to do so. The ultimate power sits with the UK parliament. That is the case and will always be the case. We have chosen to cede some powers to the EU, but this is always temporary. At anytime, our elected MPs can choose to vote to leave the EU. This is the biggest lie that the Leave camp push - that we have lost control to Brussels. We haven't. Ultimate control sits in the UK. Our MPs have chosen - because three quarters of them all agree - to stay in the EU because they believe it is in our best interests.

when the EU issues a directive in the areas covered under the various treaties, we are obliged to enact legislation to cover that. we cannot decide "no, thats not how we do things, its not for us thankyou we'll leave this one". we can maybe skirt around some details, wording, spirit and intentions, but we must apply the directive in to UK law. that is a loss of sovereignty.

when acts passed by our government are challenged in law, the highest court is no longer the Supreme Court (replacing the Lords), it is the European Court of Justice, who can rule our parliaments interpretation of EU law as unlawful and require us to change the law and remedy those affected. that is a loss of sovereignty.

an option to unilateraly leave on a whim of parliament is not a re-balancing of this loss, as its a nuclear option never taken. sovereignty is about more than just ultimate authority, it is also about who governs and maintaining independence. in any area covered by EU treaty we do not have either of these any more, the EU governs these areas.

case study, we are unable to legally reduce VAT below certain levels or add anything to the zero rated band, because this is not permissible under EU law. we have ceded sovereignty over consumption taxes to a foreign authority.

if only the EU had stuck to trade related areas, if they issued directives as suggestions to be ratified one by one, that would retain sovereignty of parliament. but that wasn't the agenda for Europe, they have always intended to go further than trade and homogenise all european law under one central authority.

 

[heathgate]

Do you remember the budget in March, just a few months ago? George Osborne crowed about being on track to hit his borrowing target for 2015-16. In fact, he overshot by £3.8 billion. This is the same Osborne that claims he can predict right out to 2030 when, apparently, every household will be £4,300 a year worse off if we vote for Brexit. That is what Osborne and the Remain camp calls a "fact". Draw your own conclusions.

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[Pretty pink fairy]

since we joined the " common market" we've had three economic recessions.............. would it matter if we left the EU
regards
DR

 

[beorhthelm]

Do you remember the budget in March, just a few months ago? George Osborne crowed about being on track to hit his borrowing target for 2015-16. In fact, he overshot by £3.8 billion.

i also remember a autumn statement 6 months before were he found an odd £20bn down the back of the sofa, which had disappeared again by the time of the budget.

 

[lawros left foot]

You're misunderstanding the process. The Brexit campaign aren't in a position to do any of that. The vote is just a mandate from the people.

Once they have that mandate the government and civil service will have to work out and negotiate an exit strategy. It will take years to see what it looks like and it's too complicated for anyone from either side to predict.

EXCACTLY!!!!
A total leap in the dark, from a position of relative comfort, to uncertainty, unnecessary risk, and chance.

 

[Bold Seagull]

since we joined the " common market" we've had three economic recessions.............. would it matter if we left the EU
regards
DR

Because before we joined was all sweet smelling roses.

 

[Baldseagull]

Maybe you could start a charity for them?

I could do, but I suspect I would get "Charity begins at home" responses, often from people who usually agree with the principle that the wealthiest in society should pay the most taxes, but then get upset about it when it turns out that they are part of the wealthy.

 

[Hamilton]

when the EU issues a directive in the areas covered under the various treaties, we are obliged to enact legislation to cover that. we cannot decide "no, thats not how we do things, its not for us thankyou we'll leave this one". we can maybe skirt around some details, wording, spirit and intentions, but we must apply the directive in to UK law. that is a loss of sovereignty.

when acts passed by our government are challenged in law, the highest court is no longer the Supreme Court (replacing the Lords), it is the European Court of Justice, who can rule our parliaments interpretation of EU law as unlawful and require us to change the law and remedy those affected. that is a loss of sovereignty.

an option to unilateraly leave on a whim of parliament is not a re-balancing of this loss, as its a nuclear option never taken. sovereignty is about more than just ultimate authority, it is also about who governs and maintaining independence. in any area covered by EU treaty we do not have either of these any more, the EU governs these areas.

case study, we are unable to legally reduce VAT below certain levels or add anything to the zero rated band, because this is not permissible under EU law. we have ceded sovereignty over consumption taxes to a foreign authority.

if only the EU had stuck to trade related areas, if they issued directives as suggestions to be ratified one by one, that would retain sovereignty of parliament. but that wasn't the agenda for Europe, they have always intended to go further than trade and homogenise all european law under one central authority.

This does not change any of the matters relating to sovereignty. Fact.

We agree to combined legislation and to enact that legislation because it is in the interests of the Union as a whole.

 

[heathgate]

i also remember a autumn statement 6 months before were he found an odd £20bn down the back of the sofa, which had disappeared again by the time of the budget.

Nicely cropped.... but your point is?

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[East Preston Gull]

The European Commission can't make us bail out an economy. You don't have to not believe it - it's a fact. It just can't happen.

I am sorry to keep doubting you but the commissions habit of going back on their word is so laughable it is dangerous

They love a treaty to get their way and putting it out to vote and when it does not go the way they wanted, they go ahead anyway.

I won't trust them today,tomorrow, next week or next year to help out Britain in any way. I live here, my family is here, I work here and will die here. I do not want to move my family to Europe in a frantic search for work so the commission can balance out Europe.

Soviet Union, European Union they belong in the dark vaults of history and are not fit for the modern age.

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[Baldseagull]

when the EU issues a directive in the areas covered under the various treaties, we are obliged to enact legislation to cover that. we cannot decide "no, thats not how we do things, its not for us thankyou we'll leave this one". we can maybe skirt around some details, wording, spirit and intentions, but we must apply the directive in to UK law. that is a loss of sovereignty.

when acts passed by our government are challenged in law, the highest court is no longer the Supreme Court (replacing the Lords), it is the European Court of Justice, who can rule our parliaments interpretation of EU law as unlawful and require us to change the law and remedy those affected. that is a loss of sovereignty.

an option to unilateraly leave on a whim of parliament is not a re-balancing of this loss, as its a nuclear option never taken. sovereignty is about more than just ultimate authority, it is also about who governs and maintaining independence. in any area covered by EU treaty we do not have either of these any more, the EU governs these areas.

case study, we are unable to legally reduce VAT below certain levels or add anything to the zero rated band, because this is not permissible under EU law. we have ceded sovereignty over consumption taxes to a foreign authority.

if only the EU had stuck to trade related areas, if they issued directives as suggestions to be ratified one by one, that would retain sovereignty of parliament. but that wasn't the agenda for Europe, they have always intended to go further than trade and homogenise all european law under one central authority.

As if our own parliament cannot create shit regulations. This loss of sovereignty that concerns you, when did you have it?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

What about remaining in the EU.

Greece is defunct, Italy is on the verge of financial meltdown, France is a basket case, Spain, Portugal and Poland too.
Ireland is struggling and it's youth are off to other countries at an alarming rate.

I will guarantee that Britain and Germany are going to have to bail out the EU. Forget our veto, it means nothing.

I worry that the EU army, which will happen with or without us, is going to antagonise that lunatic Putin and undermine Nato.

I feel we are at more risk from remaining than we are at leaving.

We are told that we are not really in a European Union. The fact that we are holding this referendum to Remain or Leave and not Join or Not Join tells me we have to get away from this rotting corpse.

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Repeat lies often enough, and you can even convince yourself that they are true, eh?

1. We are NOT IN the ****ing Eurozone. We are as much obliged to 'bail out' the Euro as Uganda and Chile are.

2. The UK have never shown any support for a (theoretical) EU army. If the EU wants one, and we are IN it, then we can use our veto to stop the idea stone dead. If we are OUT, we of course have no say in the matter at all. If you are as concerned about the idea as you sound, you should very strongly support a Remain vote.

 

[Hamilton]

I am sorry to keep doubting you but the commissions habit of going back on their word is so laughable it is dangerous

They love a treaty to get their way and putting it out to vote and when it does not go the way they wanted, they go ahead anyway.

I won't trust them today,tomorrow, next week or next year to help out Britain in any way. I live here, my family is here, I work here and will die here. I do not want to move my family to Europe in a frantic search for work so the commission can balance out Europe.

Soviet Union, European Union they belong in the dark vaults of history and are not fit for the modern age.

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Treaties are voted through by the Council of Ministers i.e. our elected governments, not Commissioners.

The Council also votes on proposals that come from the EU Commissioners - although not all proposals. Those falling within existing treaty agreements do not have to be voted through by the Council.

The Soviet Union was a dictatorship. The European Union is a union of democratically elected member states. Democracy is something that all members have in common.

 

[BigGully]

Repeat lies often enough, and you can even convince yourself that they are true, eh?

1. We are NOT IN the ****ing Eurozone. We are as much obliged to 'bail out' the Euro as Uganda and Chile are.

2. The UK have never shown any support for a (theoretical) EU army. If the EU wants one, and we are IN it, then we can use our veto to stop the idea stone dead. If we are OUT, we of course have no say in the matter at all. If you are as concerned about the idea as you sound, you should very strongly support a Remain vote.

All of your proposed vetos can be guaranteed simply by voting the Leave ............. why would you feel it necessary to be around the table trying to influence a decision that you already have decided not to allow.

 

[Two Professors]

100% of German scientists never said he was a loony. You've got to stop pedalling mistruths.

Try reading some history-or was it only the nazi scientists who said it.Try some research before accusing me of mistruths you sadly ignorant person.

 

[Two Professors]

Who, the Jewish guy in 1939?

Another poster who has no idea of history whatsoever-still,they say ignorance is bliss.Einstein had long renounced his birth religion by then.Try researching before engaging gob!

 

[Two Professors]

Have you ever heard of social media? It's all about the now. It'll be OK.

You really are Mr Smuggins aren't you?Social media is very easily hacked-never heard of Fraping you really down with the kids person?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Because before we joined was all sweet smelling roses.

you didn't answer the question?
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

repeat lies often enough, and you can even convince yourself that they are true, eh?

1. We are not in the ****ing eurozone. We are as much obliged to 'bail out' the euro as uganda and chile are.

2. The uk have never shown any support for a (theoretical) eu army. If the eu wants one, and we are in it, then we can use our veto to stop the idea stone dead. If we are out, we of course have no say in the matter at all. If you are as concerned about the idea as you sound, you should very strongly support a remain vote.

but we're still in the EU
regards
DR