[Politics] Brexit

[Maldini]

Project 'Fear' is losing it's way. It's turning into project 'Hypocrite'.

Project Desperate.

 

[The Rivet]

All quiet from the remainers tonight. Contemplating the money in their pockets or language skills to describe how they feel I guess. Bless 'em!

 

[pastafarian]

All quiet from the remainers tonight. Contemplating the money in their pockets or language skills to describe how they feel I guess. Bless 'em!

Sky News Poll Today
The "money in your pocket" argument,The Remain Camps Big and only Gun, seems to not be resonating with the electorate


Do you think short term economic turmoil would be a price worth paying to reduce immigration?

Yes 60%
No 32%
Dont Know 7%

Do you think having to obey EU laws is a price worth paying for free trade with the EU`s single market?

No 54%
Yes 36%
Dont Know 10%


http://news.sky.com/story/1706146/gove-nervous-ahead-of-sky-news-eu-event

 

[GT49er]

Here’s the Press Association account of the member of the audience who compared Michael Gove to a first world war general.

Michael Gove was accused of being like a First World War general sending his men over the top with no idea what was on the other side as he faced a public grilling on the EU referendum.

Andrew Carnegie, who runs a small business making parts for intensive care units, asked Gove to set out a detailed economic plan for the UK’s future outside of the EU.

He said: “I think the answer is there is no economic plan. It appears to me that you are asking people to vote for a divorce and sort out the financial settlement afterwards and that makes no sense to me.

“With all due respect Mr Gove, it appears to me it’s almost like a first world war general. You are waving the flag, you are saying ‘over the top men’ but you have no idea what’s on the frontline or what the casualty rate will be in the conflicts to come.”

Gove replied: “It’s certainly an arresting image, the First World War image. What I’m putting my faith in is the ingenuity, creativity and the strength of the British people.

“Many of those who are arguing we should remain are trying to frighten you by saying that it would be impossible for Britain to succeed. They are saying that Britain is too small, too poor and we are all too stupid to be able to succeed on the outside.

“I comprehensively reject that.”

No plan, no clue, no hope.

OMG! Desperate!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

He said: “I think the answer is there is no economic plan. It appears to me that you are asking people to vote for a divorce and sort out the financial settlement afterwards and that makes no sense to me.

Then the questioner has clearly never got divorced.

1. Couples generally agree to separate first ( like holding a referendum on separating from the EU )
2. Then they discuss financial terms and if necessary child care ( like the UK and EU negotiating trading terms etc )
3. They go through the divorce process ( the point at which the UK leaves the EU )

So if anyone has 'no clue' it is the questioner and anyone who thinks what he said is a valid analogy.

 

[Bladders]

The Remain camp blew their beans too early, they have nothing but economic doom to pedal. Now that's been seen through and we've all shrugged our shoulders they've nothing left.

Osborne has lost the plot as he's still pursuing this agenda even though most aren't listening.

£4300 anybody?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wellesley]

It would be interesting to reset the poll now.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

This is what Remain has done now, painted this picture of economic doom and gloom by Leaving, now everyone expects Leave to know what is going to happen. FFS nobody knows what is going to happen in the future. If we knew the economic crash was coming in 2008, there wouldn't have been a crash.

Remain and it is more of the same. The one opportunity to make a really good change for the country, but I am left with this feeling we are going to blow it all away, because of a few banks, economists predictions. Quite frankly it is pathetic, and people wonder why things don't feel or get any better.

The answer is simple for me, Leave.

 

[yxee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36450749


Did the BBC just run a pro-Brexit story? I'm in shock...

 

[Deleted member 22389]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36450749


Did the BBC just run a pro-Brexit story? I'm in shock...

Leave and we would have more money for things like our NHS, and eventually we would have fewer people using it because we could control our borders, meaning people would get a better service and the costs of the NHS would come down, and we wouldn't need to keep going abroad to bring in Doctors and Nurses supposedly to save our NHS because if you listen to Remain, British people never worked in the NHS before that.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You used to be able to work hard and achieve something, now you work hard and achieve nothing, your still at the same place. Why? Because by continuing in the EU you are helping to drive the low wage economy, that benefits big business and people from the poorest countries, but doesn't benefit us.

It is obvious what is going on here, but the government masks this by saying we have a good economy. It is a race to the bottom. If you want to live in the type of economy where you will eventually be selling match sticks to make a living, be my guest.

 

[Jim in the West]

You used to be able to work hard and achieve something, now you work hard and achieve nothing, your still at the same place. Why? Because by continuing in the EU you are helping to drive the low wage economy, that benefits big business and people from the poorest countries, but doesn't benefit us.

It is obvious what is going on here, but the government masks this by saying we have a good economy. It is a race to the bottom. If you want to live in the type of economy where you will eventually be selling match sticks to make a living, be my guest.

It's actually the complete reverse.....we need cheaper labour to do lower skilled jobs that will ALWAYS need doing. It's not British businesses that set the market rate for these jobs - and leaving the EU won't suddenly mean that work in these jobs will pay more. EU (and non-EU) immigration effectively allows the indigenous population to focus on higher value added roles. The Brexit camp hasn't told us how much immigration will be allowed after a Leave vote, primarily I think because they recognise that we will still need significant immigration to staff the jobs Brits just don't want to do.

 

[drew]

You used to be able to work hard and achieve something, now you work hard and achieve nothing, your still at the same place. Why? Because by continuing in the EU you are helping to drive the low wage economy, that benefits big business and people from the poorest countries, but doesn't benefit us.

It is obvious what is going on here, but the government masks this by saying we have a good economy. It is a race to the bottom. If you want to live in the type of economy where you will eventually be selling match sticks to make a living, be my guest.

Why is it due to the EU? Why could it not be because the world has changed. The world now has China as a major commercial player. India, Brazil, and probably a number of other nations are emerging economic powers where wages are low. Could it be that it is against those whom we are competing and what might be driving down wages.

 

[melias shoes]

Poll of polls. It's getting closer.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ave-Remain-lead-closest-numbers-EU-referendum

 

[drew]

Leave and we would have more money for things like our NHS, and eventually we would have fewer people using it because we could control our borders, meaning people would get a better service and the costs of the NHS would come down, and we wouldn't need to keep going abroad to bring in Doctors and Nurses supposedly to save our NHS because if you listen to Remain, British people never worked in the NHS before that.

You are aware that the NHS has pretty much always needed staff from overseas, long before the EU.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's actually the complete reverse.....we need cheaper labour to do lower skilled jobs that will ALWAYS need doing. It's not British businesses that set the market rate for these jobs - and leaving the EU won't suddenly mean that work in these jobs will pay more. EU (and non-EU) immigration effectively allows the indigenous population to focus on higher value added roles. The Brexit camp hasn't told us how much immigration will be allowed after a Leave vote, primarily I think because they recognise that we will still need significant immigration to staff the jobs Brits just don't want to do.

That may have been the case several years ago but the economics of migration have shifted. Wages in London for graduates have been driven down by a huge influx of skilled labour from the EU such that many graduates now feel lucky just to get a job. Rents have been driven upwards by the same process.This is the reality of allowing our economy to be available to skilled youngsters from areas of 40 or 50 % youth unemployment as exists in parts of the EU. It is not enough to just talk of low skilled, low wage Eastern Europeans, as the competition for jobs now affects what were once higher paid graduate jobs. It is no wonder that employers are so in favour of Remain.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You used to be able to work hard and achieve something

You still can, stop blaming others for your failings.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's actually the complete reverse.....we need cheaper labour to do lower skilled jobs that will ALWAYS need doing. It's not British businesses that set the market rate for these jobs - and leaving the EU won't suddenly mean that work in these jobs will pay more. EU (and non-EU) immigration effectively allows the indigenous population to focus on higher value added roles. The Brexit camp hasn't told us how much immigration will be allowed after a Leave vote, primarily I think because they recognise that we will still need significant immigration to staff the jobs Brits just don't want to do.

Disagree. When I started work ( part time ) it was in hotels and shop shelf stacking - there were no end of these type of jobs - starter jobs, even student jobs. The type of jobs that got you used to hard work and the work ethos.

Now I'm old and have a teenage family I have friends whose children are trying to get these type of jobs - to earn some money, to get experience. There are now so many immigrants filling these jobs it's close to impossible for these kids to get them. There is too much competition. Look how often you're served a meal by a non-British person. It's a fallacy that British people don't want to do these jobs - it's just instead of there being three or four people going for the vacancy there are now dozens - many willing to take a wage cut to do them ( thus driving down wages ).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Disagree. When I started work ( part time ) it was in hotels and shop shelf stacking - there were no end of these type of jobs - starter jobs, even student jobs. The type of jobs that got you used to hard work and the work ethos.

Now I'm old and have a teenage family I have friends whose children are trying to get these type of jobs - to earn some money, to get experience. There are now so many immigrants filling these jobs it's close to impossible for these kids to get them. There is too much competition. Look how often you're served a meal by a non-British person. It's a fallacy that British people don't want to do these jobs - it's just instead of there being three or four people going for the vacancy there are now dozens - many willing to take a wage cut to do them ( thus driving down wages ).

Hotel work, shelf stacking, starter/student jobs....youre talking minimum wage here, so immigrants can't take a wage cut to do them. At the minimum wage level it's a level playing field on salary so you have to ask yourself what other attributes the immigrant has which you don't.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Hotel work, shelf stacking, starter/student jobs....youre talking minimum wage here, so immigrants can't take a wage cut to do them. At the minimum wage level it's a level playing field on salary so you have to ask yourself what other attributes the immigrant has which you don't.

Firstly many of these roles do pay more than minimum wage. Secondly, it's all about chances - if you're only one out of four going for the job then you have a far better chance than a one out of 100. There are too many people going for too few jobs. Remove immigrants from that hundred and locals get a better chance.