Has the High Court abolished school term time?

[Berty23]

It's not always holidays. I know of someone who had a parent dying but lived some way away. They needed to be with that parent, but had no child cover, so took their children with them for the death and funeral. They were fined.

The head has discretion in exceptional circumstances so I would be amazed if that did not count.

 

[macky]

Following yesterday's ruling, has school term time been abolished? It's seems ridiculous that parents can take their children off on holiday willy nilly. One idea might be to scrap half term to make up for lost learning time. I think we are on the road to anarchy.

Head teachers were not prepared to use common sense My sons grandfather died and we were fined for taking time off for the funeral

 

[macky]

The head has discretion in exceptional circumstances so I would be amazed if that did not count.

Like I said above we had the same thing bloody disgraceful if we had appealed it the fine would have doubled They fined both me and my wife I wonder if I can now get a refund
My son has been at the school for over 5 years and his attendance has never been below 95%
I wonder if I'm now due a refund

 

[happypig]

As with most laws, legislation etc. it is for the idiots, cheats and the ignorant. For most people, taking their kid on holiday, or out of school for a while won't have that big an impact, because most parents will be helping their kids with their learning, and broadening their experiences.

However, as a governor at a school with some at risk kids, not all parents do look after their child's educational welfare. They won't be reading to them, buying them books, taking them on educational days out. They'll be out of school because they couldn't be arsed to get out of bed, or had something better to do. So we end up with effectively a small percentage of disadvantaged kids who through no fault of their own, and despite a schools best efforts, will go through the system behind, unable to ever catch up.

These are the parents that the legislation is for. The ones who just simply don't give a monkeys. If impacts on all of us, but then that is the same with most legislation - most of us don't need it because it is common sense. Too many kids fall through the net to ignore it. It isn't then easy to have separate sets of attendance rules for different circumstances.

IME this isn't 100% correct. I would say that at least a third of the cases I saw come to court were due to bullying. Many schools fail to address the issue and bury their heads in the sand, either claiming it's not happening or quoting their policy and that they don't tolerate it. Sometimes parents and children are so frustrated at the school's perceived inaction that they see the only way to deal with it is to absent themself/their child from school.

 

[Brovion]

I think you should hang your head in shame. If you had not taken your children out of school rather than getting average As and Bs in the their school exams they would have achieved nothing lower than an A and would have had a majority of A*s. I wouldn't be surprised if your children haven't been scared for life by your willingness to put family holidays before their education. Clearly their post school qualifications reflect that they did not take holidays during university term time.

No. If they'd stayed at school all the time they'd have got Cs and Ds as they'd have got so bored they would have lost interest! (I appreciate your post was tongue-in-cheek though)

 

[Bold Seagull]

IME this isn't 100% correct. I would say that at least a third of the cases I saw come to court were due to bullying. Many schools fail to address the issue and bury their heads in the sand, either claiming it's not happening or quoting their policy and that they don't tolerate it. Sometimes parents and children are so frustrated at the school's perceived inaction that they see the only way to deal with it is to absent themself/their child from school.

What the legislation is for and who then falls foul of it are different things I think.

 

[ROSM]

It was the court that defined 90% (or 92%) as acceptable, not me (if that's what you're implying - always so hard to read nuance). I suspect that one needs to factor in the context here. There will be kids whose attendance is 50% or less. The average is probably skewed down because of them. So statistically 92% is probably 'good'. Even though some kids may have a near 100% record (mine certainly was, back in the middle ages when I went to school).

The laws we have were brought in to give the courts redress to deal with the fickle parents who were letting their kids truant (various horror stories in the 190s; I think this was a John Major era initiative) or repeatedly taking them out of school for fatuous self-indulgent reasons and mouthing off about their right to do what they want. I'm not sure how effective the laws have been; have the bad stats fallen, and how many parents are actually fined? I really don't know.

The collateral damage is that 'middle class' parents who want to take their kids skiing in Spring, and to Tuscany in Autumn, and who would probably bring the nanny to do some tutoring with them in the mornings anyway, feel somewhat disobliged to be criminalized for this, especially given an awareness that parents who send their kids to school without breakfast, or even not at all, largely get away with their neglect.

Regardless, 92% is too low a threshold for 'virtuous parenting' in my book. And I never took my lad out of school for holiday reasons. I know plenty who did, though, and got away with it.

Sorry I wasn't saying it was your benchmark, having re read i see that's the way it re read

 

[darkwolf666]

I'm not mixing up the difference, I stated how do you deal with different rules for different families? Who makes the call on which family's holiday is approved and which isn't? The head - do they need that responsibility / extra work deciding who can be off and who can't? That's how things have broken down in the first place and how vulnerable kids have slipped through the net.

Affordable holidays needs to be tackled on flexible or staggered term dates - this is what they do in France. This would spread the holiday period. Even a week either end of the 6 weeks would make a big difference. With 14 weeks off each year, none of us should really be needing to take our kids on holiday during term time.

Hhmmm, none of us need to.take kids out of school.

As an example I looked to go away with my two grandkids and wife. Go May Bank holiday school holiday week, £700 per person, go the week after £400 per person.

The travel companies know when the majority of schools run their holidays!
Extending or staggering the holidays dates will just mean the travel companies will increase their prices across a wider date frame.
While the current fine is set at £60 per child and you can save several hundred per person going in term time it is no wonder people do it...

 

[macky]

Hhmmm, none of us need to.take kids out of school.

As an example I looked to go away with my two grandkids and wife. Go May Bank holiday school holiday week, £700 per person, go the week after £400 per person.

The travel companies know when the majority of schools run their holidays!
Extending or staggering the holidays dates will just mean the travel companies will increase their prices across a wider date frame.
While the current fine is set at £60 per child and you can save several hundred per person going in term time it is no wonder people do it...

£60 per parent and it's not just the fine it's the principle

 

[Maldini]

Rather than the Goverment coming after the parents they should be going after the holiday companies.

 

[GT49er]

I'm not mixing up the difference, I stated how do you deal with different rules for different families? Who makes the call on which family's holiday is approved and which isn't? The head - do they need that responsibility / extra work deciding who can be off and who can't? That's how things have broken down in the first place and how vulnerable kids have slipped through the net.

Affordable holidays needs to be tackled on flexible or staggered term dates - this is what they do in France. This would spread the holiday period. Even a week either end of the 6 weeks would make a big difference. With 14 weeks off each year, none of us should really be needing to take our kids on holiday during term time.

Head teachers always seemed to act in line with common sense without too much difficulty for many years before the busy-body government came along with its nanny state rules and control fetish and told them they were not allowed to use common sense any more.

 

[GT49er]

Rather than the Government coming after the parents they should be going after the holiday companies.

Better still the government should just mind its own business and keep its nose out where it is not needed.

 

[Maldini]

As with most laws, legislation etc. it is for the idiots, cheats and the ignorant. For most people, taking their kid on holiday, or out of school for a while won't have that big an impact, because most parents will be helping their kids with their learning, and broadening their experiences.

However, as a governor at a school with some at risk kids, not all parents do look after their child's educational welfare. They won't be reading to them, buying them books, taking them on educational days out. They'll be out of school because they couldn't be arsed to get out of bed, or had something better to do. So we end up with effectively a small percentage of disadvantaged kids who through no fault of their own, and despite a schools best efforts, will go through the system behind, unable to ever catch up.

These are the parents that the legislation is for. The ones who just simply don't give a monkeys. If impacts on all of us, but then that is the same with most legislation - most of us don't need it because it is common sense. Too many kids fall through the net to ignore it. It isn't then easy to have separate sets of attendance rules for different circumstances.

The way round it regards holidays is that you give the school plenty of notice and you also show proof of bookings.A hopeless parent who makes their chiildren miss a day here and there will not benefit from a relaxation of parents taking their children abroad during term time. Holidays create memories that last a lifetime for all involved.It is invaluable for children to see the world.Holidays are priceless and need to be encouraged not burnt at the stake.

 

[Maldini]

My ex is taking our 6 year old son away for a week in June during term time because she can't afford it during the summer holidays.She told me the school said it was ok as school isn't so critical in year 2.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Better still the government should just mind its own business and keep its nose out where it is not needed.

Indeed. Basic supply and and demand for holiday companies.

 

[GT49er]

Indeed. Basic supply and and demand for holiday companies.

Not thinking about the holiday companies - hotels in, say, Spain, Italy, North Africa, etc. are outwith the jurisdiction of the UK government anyway. No, just mean they should butt out of trying to control family life.

 

[Maldini]

As was suggested in the news some time ago schools should not all have the same term times,summer holidays.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Head teachers always seemed to act in line with common sense without too much difficulty for many years before the busy-body government came along with its nanny state rules and control fetish and told them they were not allowed to use common sense any more.

Actually it's not the legislation that makes heads act, it's Ofsted with inspections linked with attendance. Even without legislation, heads wouldn't allow absence because it would impact on their grading.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The way round it regards holidays is that you give the school plenty of notice and you also show proof of bookings.A hopeless parent who makes their chiildren miss a day here and there will not benefit from a relaxation of parents taking their children abroad during term time. Holidays create memories that last a lifetime for all involved.It is invaluable for children to see the world.Holidays are priceless and need to be encouraged not burnt at the stake.

Is 14 weeks in which to take these holidays not enough? Is saving a few quid really justification for missing school?

 

[GT49er]

Actually it's not the legislation that makes heads act, it's Ofsted with inspections linked with attendance. Even without legislation, heads wouldn't allow absence because it would impact on their grading.

They could and they did. Then, the government abolished the well established system of head teachers' discretion.