Brussels Airport Terrorist attack

[Buzzer]

Not sure, we discussed it in form time and Sociology class this morning but very little to no comment at all from those students. Similar after the Westgate attacks.

That's worrying. You take care, matey.

 

[Hastings gull]

What the 'indigenous' population would like to see is a 10,000 strong march of BRITISH muslims marching down the mall denouncing these sick 'muslim' extremists. Replicated in Oldham, Rotherham, Luton, Bradford etc. That might convince us of the conviction to denounce the barbarians.

Exactly! The lingering suspicion is that whilst many more muslims would be against such methods that we saw yesterday, there might just be sympathy with the aims of the terrorists. And this climate of suspicion will surely continue whilst there is, as ever, a deafening silence. Of course it is hard to split on your mates, or your own community, but if you are appalled enough, then that is what would you would surely do. A few on here have already said that their muslim mates/ fellow workers are appalled, and I am sure that on the face of it they are, but has the "them and us" within our society become so ingrained, that expressions of (varying degrees of) regret is all we can ever hope for on a large scale, to the intense frustration of the non-muslim community. If this is the case, then the terrorists are getting what they want, as they would wish to polarise views - this gains them recruits.

 

[Triggaaar]

I really can't give you a definitive answer because I don't know and I'm not going to ask my work mate. Sorry.

I wasn't specifically expecting an answer from you, let alone an apology. It was an open question to all.

First of all, we have to convince imams in Europe to start preaching that whoever kills innocent people will NOT go to heaven, will NOT enjoy the beauty of 72 virgins etc.

Exactly. We are all god's children, even atheists like me, and although I've been very disrespectful of him at times, I'm still his son and he loves me. He doesn't want his better children killing his naughty children.

You get young Muslim's in this country who are confused as to what they are supposed to do - are they supposed to answer the call and go and fight etc. If their Imams were doing their job properly, they'd know that joining isis is the worst thing they could do.

That would be useful (and true!). If they are not willing to do that, they should be sent back to their countries of origin.

I don't think we can force people to preach what we want them to. We can stop them preaching things that are against the law (hate) and we can put pressure on them by posing the question 'are they and their community with us, or against us?' etc.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Great video.

I couldn't help but notice that many of those countries that were being studied were poor and have very low levels of education, i think solving that is key to unraveling extremism.

And yet there's just as many poor nations with low levels of education that don't produce terrorists.

Islam is simply a ****ed up backward ideology.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Exactly! The lingering suspicion is that whilst many more muslims would be against such methods that we saw yesterday, there might just be sympathy with the aims of the terrorists. And this climate of suspicion will surely continue whilst there is, as ever, a deafening silence. Of course it is hard to split on your mates, or your own community, but if you are appalled enough, then that is what would you would surely do. A few on here have already said that their muslim mates/ fellow workers are appalled, and I am sure that on the face of it they are, but has the "them and us" within our society become so ingrained, that expressions of (varying degrees of) regret is all we can ever hope for on a large scale, to the intense frustration of the non-muslim community. If this is the case, then the terrorists are getting what they want, as they would wish to polarise views - this gains them recruits.

There wasn't a great outpouring of protest from Catholics either against the IRA. The similarities are far too pronounced to ignore. The IRA saw themselves as Catholic, but much of the Catholic world did not, and while some Catholic leaders denounced them, many did not, and there were no great marches down the Mall either from Catholic communities - presumably they were appalled enough too?

Cardinal Dolan said as much recently when he was quoted as saying ISIS is a Muslim like the IRA were Catholic. There is no doubt the Muslim communities need to react, but your assumption is that they are just one big group with one unified voice. To go one step further why didn't Catholics and Protestants walk down the Mall hand in hand as Christians in protest against the violence perpetrated in their name? People keep dismissing our recent history as not relevant, but of course it is, how can it not be when religious fanatics use terror to achieve their aims?

I think it would be great if there was a march in protest at these terrorist acts, and while it would be a message if it was Muslim organised, I'd like to think it would be a march that included all citizens of the UK marching in solidarity against acts that have no connection whatsoever to the lives and cultures of ordinary people. I don't see why Muslims should be walking down the Mall on their own anymore than Christians did.

 

[Wilko]

First of all, we have to convince imams in Europe to start preaching that whoever kills innocent people will NOT go to heaven, will NOT enjoy the beauty of 72 virgins etc. That would be useful (and true!). .

How is that true? There is absolutely no evidence of heaven what so ever.

It also states in the Quran:

'as to those who reject faith, I will punish them,.....For all believers you may kill all non believers without reason or provocation (3.56)

So, according to the Quran the terrorists are following the book and not doing anything wrong.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

How is that true?

Well, if you don't believe in heaven then you can assume it's true that you won't go there. If you do believe in heaven, and have any common sense in you, then you can assume that killing innocent people is not perhaps the best way to get you there.

As for what Quran says, and what some imams preach, that's a different matter altogether.

 

[Hastings gull]

There wasn't a great outpouring of protest from Catholics either against the IRA. The similarities are far too pronounced to ignore. The IRA saw themselves as Catholic, but much of the Catholic world did not, and while some Catholic leaders denounced them, many did not, and there were no great marches down the Mall either from Catholic communities - presumably they were appalled enough too?

Yes, I see what you are saying, and doubtless there would have been much intimidation, and in that sense you are right in that there are similarities. However, Sinnfein did not do that well at the ballot box, as I recall, and so in this way, Catholics DID show that they were not totally behind the IRA.

Cardinal Dolan said as much recently when he was quoted as saying ISIS is a Muslim like the IRA were Catholic. There is no doubt the Muslim communities need to react, but your assumption is that they are just one big group with one unified voice. To go one step further why didn't Catholics and Protestants walk down the Mall hand in hand as Christians in protest against the violence perpetrated in their name? People keep dismissing our recent history as not relevant, but of course it is, how can it not be when religious fanatics use terror to achieve their aims?
Whilst this is again true, a political party did start up which said that it was inter-denominational. But you are right -the clergy from both sides, certainly here in England, away from possible intimidation, could certainly have been more involved in a high-profile way. If we want the muslim community to show their disgust, then we must be consistent, and appeal to Christian leaders in NI to do the same. I was certainly not suggesting otherwise.

I think it would be great if there was a march in protest at these terrorist acts, and while it would be a message if it was Muslim organised, I'd like to think it would be a march that included all citizens of the UK marching in solidarity against acts that have no connection whatsoever to the lives and cultures of ordinary people. I don't see why Muslims should be walking down the Mall on their own anymore than Christians did.

As we both say,the point is that the initiative must come from the muslim community en masse , and of course there will be many folk from all communities who will meet them half way, so to speak.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

There wasn't a great outpouring of protest from Catholics either against the IRA. The similarities are far too pronounced to ignore. The IRA saw themselves as Catholic, but much of the Catholic world did not, and while some Catholic leaders denounced them, many did not, and there were no great marches down the Mall either from Catholic communities - presumably they were appalled enough too?

Cardinal Dolan said as much recently when he was quoted as saying ISIS is a Muslim like the IRA were Catholic. There is no doubt the Muslim communities need to react, but your assumption is that they are just one big group with one unified voice. To go one step further why didn't Catholics and Protestants walk down the Mall hand in hand as Christians in protest against the violence perpetrated in their name? People keep dismissing our recent history as not relevant, but of course it is, how can it not be when religious fanatics use terror to achieve their aims?

I think it would be great if there was a march in protest at these terrorist acts, and while it would be a message if it was Muslim organised, I'd like to think it would be a march that included all citizens of the UK marching in solidarity against acts that have no connection whatsoever to the lives and cultures of ordinary people. I don't see why Muslims should be walking down the Mall on their own anymore than Christians did.

Why would Catholics outside of Ireland outpour over the IRA? It was a struggle for Indpendece, not a religiously motivated war. That's why there were plenty of Protestants on the side of the Republicans throughout history.

Their acts were more akin to Native American Indian raids on settlers and soldiers than anything we see today going on with Islam.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

How can anyone be a true moderate when your prophet is <mod edit> No, thanks. That sort of view is not welcome on NSC. There are other websites that might be more appropriate for the expression of these sorts of views.

 

[BadFish]

I wasn't specifically expecting an answer from you, let alone an apology. It was an open question to all.

Exactly. We are all god's children, even atheists like me, and although I've been very disrespectful of him at times, I'm still his son and he loves me. He doesn't want his better children killing his naughty children.

You get young Muslim's in this country who are confused as to what they are supposed to do - are they supposed to answer the call and go and fight etc. If their Imams were doing their job properly, they'd know that joining isis is the worst thing they could do.

If they are doing their jobs properly they will recognise that ISIS eta al are responsible for more muslim deaths than any others. As this article suggests if we had more coverage of the other atrocities commited by ISIS it may cause more Muslims to act against them or at lease dissuade them from joining.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-gruesome-muslim-death-toll.html

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If they are doing their jobs properly they will recognise that ISIS eta al are responsible for more muslim deaths than any others. As this article suggests if we had more coverage of the other atrocities commited by ISIS it may cause more Muslims to act against them or at lease dissuade them from joining.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-gruesome-muslim-death-toll.html

That theory is nice in principle but it doesn't work. Look to the USA for confirmation of that. Despite blacks killing blacks in signifigantly larger numbers than any other group of people is killing them their "leaders" say nothing on such issues and only appear when a black person is killed by a cop or a white person.

 

[studio150]

There is a reason why we have Christian countries and Muslim countries, it just works much better that way.

Why does it work better ?

What are you describing as a Christian country, is it one that has Christianity as the state religion, or one where Christians are the majority of the population.

If you believe in religion, should it be without boundaries or can you build walls to keep a particular faith out.

 

[Hastings gull]

If they are doing their jobs properly they will recognise that ISIS eta al are responsible for more muslim deaths than any others. As this article suggests if we had more coverage of the other atrocities commited by ISIS it may cause more Muslims to act against them or at lease dissuade them from joining.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-gruesome-muslim-death-toll.html

What evidence have you got that they do NOT recognise this, as the fact that more muslims than non-muslims are killed by muslims is well known. And we do have regular coverage of ISIS atrocities, but don't forget that you don't see it.

 

[Hastings gull]

Why does it work better ?

What are you describing as a Christian country, is it one that has Christianity as the state religion, or one where Christians are the majority of the population.

If you believe in religion, should it be without boundaries or can you build walls to keep a particular faith out.

Of course ideally it should be the former but the post does have a point. Do you think it is all working out famously?

 

[pb21]

I think an important question is why people decide this is the right thing to do and how they get to the point where they even consider it in the first place.

Religion, Islam or Christianity etc. aren't inherent beliefs, people chose to believe them, there maybe an inherent desire to believe but you still make the choice, religion comes second.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

I can see a resurgence of fascism in Europe and a Europe-wide fascist government within twenty years.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

An interesting read.
http://www.politico.eu/article/mole...adicalization-suburb-brussels-gentrification/

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think an important question is why people decide this is the right thing to do and how they get to the point where they even consider it in the first place.

Religion, Islam or Christianity etc. aren't inherent beliefs, people chose to believe them, there maybe an inherent desire to believe but you still make the choice, religion comes second.

I think your first important question is partly answered by your second comment. Unfortunately many people don't really 'choose' to believe in a religion. They are indoctrinated from an early age and grow up in communities where rejection of their religion has numerous negative consequences. This is particularly apparent in Islam where the consequences vary from death to becoming a family/social/community outcast.

It is therefore perhaps not surprising how someone who is raised in an environment where belief in religion is almost compulsory can lose perspective on the value of evidence based independent opinion forming and universal norms of right and wrong that conflict with their beliefs. If you are constantly told your faith is the only true one, it is the last revealed word of God and supersedes all other beliefs it increases the likelihood that you can be manipulated. Someone just needs to vary the message/ line of indoctrination. The ultimate example being the suppression of our basic self preservation instinct. Life after death is going to be infinitely better than this one/suicide bombers.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

But,we're constantly being told our security is at risk if we leave the EU .

And on the other hand IDS and other Brexiters have made it quite clear that we will be more likely to be murdered by terrorists if we remain in the EU. You pays your money...

Is our security at risk if we leave? I'm not clever enough to know, although speaking before the Brussels attacks Bernard Hogan-Howe (impartial presumably) warned of a bureaucratic nightmare if we had to renegotiate access yo Europe-wide databases. The facts, as I read them, is that the UK will be able to access the EU's police co-operation agency in the same way that Switzerland and Norway do, although they have to pay fees to be members and have second tier membership, seriously delaying the amount of time taken to obtain high security information.