Things we won't say about race that are true

[BadFish]

This is my point, on holiday in Barbados I was called boss and whitey ,had a bloke at work who was black and when given the sack bought out the race card ,I don't give a shit about being called whitey honkey ect ,I do think ethnic people are more racist than us brits .

Are there any ethnicities that you think are more racist than others or is it just general ethnics?

 

[matbha]

Maybe you should think about why you don't mind being called whitey and honkey yet black people get really upset being called ****** and coon.

so its ok for a black man to say hi ****** to another black man ,yes I know its a slave name ect ! but this is just double standards ,

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is my point, on holiday in Barbados I was called boss and whitey ,had a bloke at work who was black and when given the sack bought out the race card ,I don't give a shit about being called whitey honkey ect ,I do think ethnic people are more racist than us brits .

Would you "give a shit" about being called an idiot?

 

[matbha]

Are there any ethnicities that you think are more racist than others or is it just general ethnics?

Im just telling you what I think and have been through !

 

[BadFish]

so its ok for a black man to say hi ****** to another black man ,yes I know its a slave name ect ! but this is just double standards ,

It is to do with black people taking back the power of the word and taking ownership of it. I am not sure you can have double standards in this case as the playing field is so uneven. The words we call them are infinately worse than those they call us because of the weight of history and circumstance they contain.

 

[BadFish]

Im just telling you what I think and have been through !

Fair enough but your example has you comparing apples and oranges. What does your treatment on Barbados have to do with a bloke you worked with pulling the race card after being sacked?

 

[matbha]

Would you "give a shit" about being called an idiot?

If I was wrong no !

 

[matbha]

Fair enough but your example has you comparing apples and oranges. What does your treatment on Barbados have to do with a bloke you worked with pulling the race card after being sacked?

The bloke being sacked said ,its cos im black aint it ,I said no ,then he called me a white pig ect ,it was cos hes shite at his job nothing else ,but in Barbados I was whitey and it didn't bother the black man saying it

 

[looney]

It's weird talking to you.

1st you just start being abusive, presumably i press your buttons like a piano...

2nd you say i never admit i'm wrong 2 posts after i had admitted i was wrong on something.

Then you start asking for a society that has different races in it that worked.

Well at least you're finally on topic rather than just childish personal attacks.

I'm not going to bother giving you a reply to your specific question, i'll let your ridiculous implication stand that no society that contains mixed races ever has worked.
It says much about your bigotry and ignorance.

Oh, and by the way in this thread, i have given an example of a society that was multi cultural that worked.

plink...

The thing is you are not talking to me, like all narcassists you are just reflecting your own ego and prejudices. All those claims are ones that can be levelled at you. Except the multiculti/racial one which you have failed to read or understand.

The error was the presentation of the argument, prove a negative, not the issue or content. But thats the way you are avoiding admitting you were wrong.

Just see if your small mind can grasp that, again your projection is pretty lousey. But keep going blowhard.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

The error was the presentation of the argument, prove a negative..

Quote it to me.

 

[wellquickwoody]

It is to do with black people taking back the power of the word and taking ownership of it. I am not sure you can have double standards in this case as the playing field is so uneven. The words we call them are infinately worse than those they call us because of the weight of history and circumstance they contain.

Sorry, but history has absolutely jack sxxt as to whether I, or anybody else alive today, is racist or not. I refuse to be blamed for the actions of OUR forefathers, I also refuse to be judged by liberal wet wipes who want to be seen to be right on and oh so forward thinking.

Equality is here, and equality should be now. It is not based upon what happened 200 years ago, it is not based upon some sense of injustice of someone who wasn't even alive when these events occurred. Live together, get along, respect the past, but do not persecute our joint future for the sake of bitter history.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Sorry, but history has absolutely jack sxxt as to whether I, or anybody else alive today, is racist or not. I refuse to be blamed for the actions of OUR forefathers, I also refuse to be judged by liberal wet wipes who want to be seen to be right on and oh so forward thinking.

Equality is here, and equality should be now. It is not based upon what happened 200 years ago, it is not based upon some sense of injustice of someone who wasn't even alive when these events occurred. Live together, get along, respect the past, but do not persecute our joint future for the sake of bitter history.

The 'N' word is a sign of ownership when coming from a white person and brotherhood when coming from a fellow black person.

If you can't see and respect that i would suggest you stick your money where your mouth is and start using the word and see where it gets you...
Ah no didn't think so, just a bit of grandstanding, from someone who is espousing a bigots' argument.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Sorry, but history has absolutely jack sxxt as to whether I, or anybody else alive today, is racist or not. I refuse to be blamed for the actions of OUR forefathers, I also refuse to be judged by liberal wet wipes who want to be seen to be right on and oh so forward thinking.

You're not being blamed, stop being a victim....

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

What is the link between bigots and the victim mentality - i genuinely don't understand it.

So many seem to have both, what's the mindset?

 

[dangull]

Are black people faster over 100 metres than other races generally or is that a racist statement ?

 

[Eeyore]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-criminalisation-communities?CMP=share_btn_fb

Why shouldn’t we say things about race that are true, asked Trevor Phillips in a Channel 4 documentary broadcast last night. And who could possibly disagree? Facts are facts, after all, and suppressing them just suppresses debate.

Certainly, the former race chief’s stance has cemented influential friendships. The Daily Mail lauded him on Monday with a front page headline: “At last! A man who dares to tell truth about race”. Its columnist Richard Littlejohn called him “the bravest man in the universe”. On a BBC Radio 5 Live phone-in this week, callers sang his praises. He’s right, they said: British people have become paralysed by a fear of being called racist.

Phillips is a significant voice on this issue: from 2003 he spent nine years as the head of Britain’s foremost race equality body – first the Commission for Racial Equality and then, after its abolition, the Equality and Human Rights Commission. But he’s been a controversial figure too: he opposed multiculturalism, and later said that Britain was “sleepwalking to segregation”.

Trevor Phillips Facebook Twitter Pinterest
‘I don’t object to Trevor Phillips’s programme, or his right to make it. But his analysis ignores the environment into which these facts are projected.’ Photograph: Ken McKay/ITV/REX
Some of Phillips’ unsayable things are fairly mundane: “Irish people run the building trade”; “Indian women are more likely to be chemists”; “Indian and Chinese kids do best at school”. So what? But his crime-related observations are more controversial.

He talks to a former police chief who runs through a map of the capital, pointing out that in west London there are south Asian and Somali networks, who deal drugs and operate protection rackets; in east London crime within the Pakistani community has caused “a couple of very nasty murders”; in Hackney, there’s a Turkish influence to the heroin trade; and in central London there are Chinese sex traffickers and Romanian pickpockets.

I’m sure this is all true; but this one exchange highlights just why we need caution. Facts in themselves are neutral but their interpretation certainly isn’t. And while on their own facts cannot be racist, the way they are chosen certainly can be.

In effect, the police officer was merely pointing out where these communities live or work. And, yes, different ethnic groups will have different crimes – often due to their national history or culture – but that in no way means one ethnicity is inherently more criminal than another.

The police officer could equally have pointed to the City, and said that here white people commit banking fraud; or to Wapping, where they hack phones; or to Westminster, where they plot illegal wars.

The fact is, in all cases it’s just a small minority of any given group who are criminal. But the danger in all this is that if we keep repeating, and reporting, that Chinese do trafficking, or Turks trade in heroin, then in the absence of other information these entire ethnic groups can quickly become criminalised in the public perception.

This “ethnic profiling” is felt particularly sharply by Britain’s black population. Since the 1970s it has been reported that young black boys are more likely than other ethnic groups to commit street robbery. This is correct. But does this mean all young black men are criminals, or even most of them? Certainly not. Yet, as has been well recorded, black people are six times more likely to be stopped and searched by police than white people.

When we hear about white criminality, we already have enough other information to be able to contextualise it
Less reported is the fact that in the overwhelming number of cases these stops produce no evidence and do not lead to arrest. So each year, because of one “fact”, thousands of innocent black people are put through the humiliation and inconvenience of a police search – simply because their skin colour makes them “look” like a criminal in the officers’ mind. Would Phillips wish the same common perceptions for Turkish, Chinese, Pakistani and Romanian people?

There is an infinite number of facts about any one ethnic group; so the issue isn’t whether certain facts are correct or not; but which facts are chosen.

If the only time Romanians are spoken of is when they pick pockets, or when they’re seen as unwanted migrants, then the public will end up with a totally skewed view of them. We’ll learn nothing about their history or why they came to Britain, or even get a decent idea of what they do here.

When we hear about white criminality, such as football hooliganism, lager louts or paedophile rings, we already have enough other information about white people to be able to contextualise this, so we don’t leap to conclusions, and we don’t have high-level discussions about a “crisis within whiteness”. But in the absence of counterbalancing stories, it’s all too easy to begin to build stereotypes about minority communities.

The strongest recent example of this has been the shocking revelations of sexual grooming by mainly Pakistani-origin men in several British cities, with thousands of young victims. Hundreds of men are implicated in these horrific crimes. Yet in Britain there are 1.2 million people of Pakistani heritage. The vile grooming gangs are a tiny proportion (far less than one in 1,000), yet the stories have led to all manner of discussions about what is wrong with Pakistanis in general. Or, even worse, what is wrong with their religion, Islam, which has still less connection to the issue. Said one Radio 5 Live caller: “They can’t have relationships with their own young ladies because it’s forbidden so they go after young white girls.” Presumably “they” means all Muslim or Pakistani men.

Victoria Climbie Facebook Twitter Pinterest
‘Phillips sees the death of Victoria Climbie as another example of PC-imposed silence creating a victim. Yet the evidence in this case was of a dysfunctional social services department.’ Photograph: PA
Tied in with the so-called suppression of facts is the implication that you can’t criticise black or Asian Brits – who, as a result, enjoy a kind of enhanced social status which can even give them immunity from the law. Thus emerges the myth that these gangs got away with it because people were scared to investigate for fear of being labelled racist. If officers across the country were really in fear of this, the stop and search figures would be inverted, with black and Asian people less likely to be stopped than white people. Why would it possibly be that in every other aspect of the criminal justice system the evidence is that black and Asian people are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and to receive a prison sentence than white people? Yet somehow, for these particularly grotesque crimes, Asians were given an easy ride. There’s been much conjecture on the possibility that “political correctness” prevented their crimes being detected, but absolutely no evidence.

As shown by Jimmy Savile, along with the many cases of sexual abuse at children’s homes, the police have never listened to children from vulnerable, often scarred, backgrounds, when they’ve gone to the police for help. Until recent years the police would rarely even believe adult women rape victims, no matter what their background.

Phillips sees the death of Victoria Climbié as another example of PC-imposed silence creating a victim. The eight-year-old Ivorian was murdered by her guardians after several social workers missed signs of her abuse. He says this was because she was black, and that her meek body language and signs of bruising on her body were seen as part of African custom and culture. Yet the evidence in this case was of a dysfunctional social services department that later failed a white child, Baby P, in similarly tragic circumstances.

Blaming the Rotherham abuse on a fear of being branded a racist is ludicrous
Hugh Muir
Hugh Muir Read more
The problem with introducing all these “facts” is the predominant tendency to racialise – to ascribe a racial meaning to an event in the absence of any other information. People in certain groups are said do things “because they’re black”; “because they’re Muslim”; “because they’re Asian”. It works for other nationalities too: think Irish, Polish or Greek.

So each statistic becomes a sign of total racial or cultural difference, wrapping up everyone in a particular community, rather than being just one of a multitude of facts concerning that group. And it works particularly strongly against minorities who are less known.

And when some communities are believed to be doing certain things and getting away with it, or being favoured by those in power at white people’s expense, it’s not long before a rightwing backlash starts to take hold. These grievances add fuel to the surge in support for Ukip, and before that aided the BNP.

Phillips will no doubt see this article as another attempt to shut down the debate. Actually, I don’t object to his programme, or his right to make it: in many ways it’s good to have a discussion on this. But his analysis ignores the environment into which these facts are projected, and the selectivity of those deciding which we get to hear. When I see a tabloid splash with the headline “White Crime Shock” I might be persuaded. Until then, I’d advise anyone that when they hear facts or truths reported about any particular community, they should immediately think of the many more facts we never get to hear.

That is about the only entry I've properly read on this thread. I don't think I need read any further.

 

[TomandJerry]

Are black people faster over 100 metres than other races generally or is that a racist statement ?

I would say over longer distances you tend to see more blacks than whites in the race, and certainly blacks tend to win

 

[dangull]

I would say over longer distances you tend to see more blacks than whites in the race, and certainly blacks tend to win

I think it's because when modern humans were in Africa they had to confront lions ect for food. When they moved into Europe they didn't have this problem so didn't have to be so quick searching for food ect. I may be banned now, hope I not upset anyone.

 

[carlzeiss]

I would say over longer distances you tend to see more blacks than whites in the race, and certainly blacks tend to win

Yeah , but not in water

 

[TomandJerry]

Yeah , but not in water

Indeed, whites tend to dominate in the water, but I am wondering if there is a link between this or if somehow whites are just better at swimming and blacks are better at running, Mo Farah has been Britian's best runner (long distance), and even with the female long running, mostly black women in there

And to be honest over the short distance running blacks seem to dominate there (just look at Bolt)