Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[Triggaaar]

Good for Greece. Let's just hope for their sake they choose the far-left rather than the far-right. Let's hope they put their middle fingers up to austerity, the EU and the modern capitalist system which ****ed them up so badly.....

You must hate the Greeks.

 

[Simster]

The Greece that founded democracy and kicked out a fascist junta? Who's tax evading culture is arguably based on resistance to ottoman oppression?

Blaming others and resorting to crude nationalism is their type? Ironic that the country that is currently making them dance destroyed Europe when they did the same, yet we are digging out the Greeks.

I have sympathy with some of what you say, but it's worth remembering that the Greeks had the power NOT to join the Eurozone when it did, and these issues come as a direct result of that decision.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Greece's reversion to type - impoverished, badly governed, with tendencies both to blame everyone else than themselves and towards a crude nationalism - should surprise absolutely no-one.

... especially in the UK, where we have a government that is increasingly dancing to the tune played by UKIP - a party that is happy to blame foreigners and appeal to a crude nationalism with no foundation in economic good sense.

 

[RexCathedra]

... dancing to the tune played by UKIP - a party that is happy to blame foreigners and appeal to a crude nationalism with no foundation in economic good sense.

If you will not assure my prosperity, allowing me to watch other people suffer more than I do is an acceptable second choice....

 

[TomandJerry]

Since the beginning of the bailout programme, Greece's debt has risen from 120% to 175% of GDP, and its unemployment rate hovers around 25%

Syriza says that if it wins the elections it will renegotiate the terms of the bailout, end Greece's austerity programme, and write off part of the country's debt.

Those policies are popular with many Greeks, but others worry they could derail the country's recovery and possibly even force its exit from the eurozone if Brussels decides to play hardball in negotiations with the new government.

If Syriza wins Greece's elections, it would give a boost to parties on both the far left and the far right - in Spain, Italy and elsewhere - which are pushing back against EU authority.

The risk this time around is less that markets would tar other countries in the eurozone with the Greek brush - or at least, not immediately - it is rather that other countries might follow Greece's lead themselves and choose to reject the path to recovery laid out by Brussels.

 

[Machiavelli]

I assume you are referring to the Marshall Plan which involved the USA handing out millions to rebuild Europe after the devastation of the war years. Germany was included in this, and doubtless many in other countries were not best pleased to see the Germans do well out of it. Realistically, however, other countries needed a healthy German economy, and so it was probably wise to include Germany. The cynic would say that the Americans also wanted to build up the German economy to show that capitalism was superior to communism as practiced in the East Block, and I imagine that there was some truth to this. However, it was not just the USA cash - Germans regarded 1945 as Jahr null, and were themselves very determined to start again from scratch -their ingenuity and endeavour, plus successful economic policies, were equally the cause of the rebuilding of the nation.

You mean 'loaning' rather than 'handing out', don't you?

 

[Machiavelli]

Ah, but the charity bratwurst will build you up and ultimately make you stronger. Besides, given a choice of a pastry or a sausage which sort of person plumps for the former?

How about pastry and sausage combined into a roll?

 

[Man of Harveys]

The Greece that founded democracy and kicked out a fascist junta? Who's tax evading culture is arguably based on resistance to ottoman oppression?

Blaming others and resorting to crude nationalism is their type? Ironic that the country that is currently making them dance destroyed Europe when they did the same, yet we are digging out the Greeks.

Taking this as my lead, I explained to the taxman that I wouldn't be paying him his due, despite having spent far too much. I tried to justify this by explaining that my country was conquered by the Normans in 1066 and had also developed the concept of a constitutional monarchy, all of which obviously totally absolves me from any sense of fiscal responsibility in some oddball's twisted, jaundiced eyes.

When he told me that I couldn't really carry on spending beyond my means and then being bailed out, I called him a Nazi and also emphasized that I wouldn't be changing my spending habits and in fact decided to spend even more. Marvellous scenes.

 

[Hastings gull]

We live in a globalised world now - the age of the nation state is ending, the real divisions are now those with money and those without it, rather than nationalities.

Working people all around the world need to look after one another. What has happened to the Greek people since the recession is despicable - **** the EU, **** the people responsible, **** the capitalist system. Just like everywhere else in the world, the Greek elites are virtually untouched, while regular people are severely paying for their mistakes.

The same dilemma is occurring in Greece as everywhere else - Should they be blaming foreigners, other countries, for their woes? - or is it really economic inequality that is responsible? The world is increasingly having to make a choice between nationalism and socialism - let's just hope we make the right one.

The usual extreme and blinkered nonsense from you. The Greeks have themselves to blame -they have paid pensions at a ridiculously early stage and from what I read, it is left to the tax payers own level of honesty, or otherwise, when declaring taxes, hence government coffers were not full. How can capitalism be blamed for that. I can understand that a left-wing government would appeal when they want an end to austerity -who wouldn't vote for a party that offered cash for all and an end to austerity, particularly if you are one of the poorest in society. I can well imagine, however, that they will not be saying anything to the electorate about how this change in policy would be financed. The EU made Greek austerity a condition for loans, as they knew that, left to themselves, the Greeks would not change radically and only appear with the begging bowl later on. Of course it is easy to blame the Germans for being dictatorial, but then they are being asked to pay the lion's share of any bail-out, and if you, the reader, were to be asked to finance, say a charity or something similar, then you would also want guarantees that at the very least your hard-earned money was being put to good use.

 

[BigGully]

The Irish, who are also dealing with a million people without access to health care, massive increases in infant mortality and suicide, and the return of previously-defeated infectious disases.

Oh, wait....

True, malaria hasn't returned -- because Ireland isn't quite warm enough....

I am not going to google your point, but I do not accept that 1 million people cannot access healthcare in Ireland, absolutely not.

I suspect that you have made some random benchmark for YOUR minimum requirement for healthcare and edged out a million citizens.

 

[Machiavelli]

Since the beginning of the bailout programme, Greece's debt has risen from 120% to 175% of GDP, and its unemployment rate hovers around 25%

Syriza says that if it wins the elections it will renegotiate the terms of the bailout, end Greece's austerity programme, and write off part of the country's debt.

Those policies are popular with many Greeks, but others worry they could derail the country's recovery and possibly even force its exit from the eurozone if Brussels decides to play hardball in negotiations with the new government.

If Syriza wins Greece's elections, it would give a boost to parties on both the far left and the far right - in Spain, Italy and elsewhere - which are pushing back against EU authority.

The risk this time around is less that markets would tar other countries in the eurozone with the Greek brush - or at least, not immediately - it is rather that other countries might follow Greece's lead themselves and choose to reject the path to recovery laid out by Brussels.

Not forgetting that their economy has shrunk by about a third, they've lost the provision of universal healthcare, wages have slumped for most by about a half... Yet most on here seem to think that the Greeks should just accept this, and suffer further bouts of sado-monetarism.

 

[TomandJerry]

Not forgetting that their economy has shrunk by about a third, they've lost the provision of universal healthcare, wages have slumped for most by about a half... Yet most on here seem to think that the Greeks should just accept this, and suffer further bouts of sado-monetarism.

It would be interesting to see what happens when they left the EU if the left party gets in power

 

[RexCathedra]

That million can access health care in Ireland, but not in Greece.
Because Greece has refused to embrace austerity, and Ireland has.

Apparently...

 

[beorhthelm]

Good for Greece. Let's just hope for their sake they choose the far-left rather than the far-right. Let's hope they put their middle fingers up to austerity, the EU and the modern capitalist system which ****ed them up so badly.....

they took from the capitalist system. they wanted the money, the loans the goods that they brought from other countries.

what this does remind us is that the Euro debt crisis never went away, its just been defered, kicked down the road for a year here, 6 mths there. but most the Euro nations are still in serious financial trouble and wont resolve until they either cut spending massively or default on their debts.

 

[withdeanwombat]

How about pastry and sausage combined into a roll?

Isn't this the breakfast pie ? Add a pint of Harvey's.......

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If the Greek people vote to ignore their bills and continue living the easy life, they should be cut adrift and sent into the dark ages. Let them be a lesson to all.

Harsh given the EU turned a complete blind eye to the rules and allowed Greece to join it's political experiment called the Euro. Then to help the situation Germany gave Greece huge amounts of cheap credit and encoraged Greece to spend it on large construction projects supplied by, you've guessed it, German construction companies. Then the EU forced a change of government and installed an unelected EU beaurocrat as PM. Greece was right royally butt fu*ked by Germany and the EU.

 

[BigGully]

Harsh given the EU turned a complete blind eye to the rules and allowed Greece to join it's political experiment called the Euro. Then to help the situation Germany gave Greece huge amounts of cheap credit and encoraged Greece to spend it on large construction projects supplied by, you've guessed it, German construction companies. Then the EU forced a change of government and installed an unelected EU beaurocrat as PM. Greece was right royally butt fu*ked by Germany and the EU.

Its a little like Wonga taking the moral high ground as they take one of their punters into bankruptcy.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Good for Greece. Let's just hope for their sake they choose the far-left rather than the far-right. Let's hope they put their middle fingers up to austerity, the EU and the modern capitalist system which ****ed them up so badly.....

Do you blame others for your cock ups?

 

[Driver8]

... or just scrap the ridiculous system entirely. Who exactly benefits from it all?

Every country needs to look to increase spending, otherwise we will all be riding on a downward spiral together. Austerity is one of the great scams of the 21st century, people should not accept it. Good for the Greeks.

Where are countries like Greece going to get the money from to spend? No mug is going to lend them anything.

 

[Machiavelli]

Isn't this the breakfast pie ? Add a pint of Harvey's.......

Good memory jog. I remember the breakfast pie. With Harveys. It also brings to mind that cottage pie pie, with the mash. Divided opinion, but I liked it.