The Faustian pact comes unstuck.....

[symyjym]

Im normally 100% behind Atilla but I do think facts have been sacrificed for effect here. I thought part of the reason we are int he position we are in is we haven't tried to buy our way to success by ignoring FFP... we can't do this and be accused of selling out to money. Secondly I have trouble with the Faustian pact. Of loa the clubs in the Championship I think we are one of the few who HAVE kept their soul. As of the need to get rid of Hyppia... I am 100% behind. Not sure about Barber... lets be honest getting in Bennett and Bent are blinders so jury is out on him and certainly 100% behind Bloom.

I had heard somewhere, can't rember where now, that DK called Delia to get Bennett back here.

 

[JCL666]

I always think this concept of selling your soul for success thing is utter nonsense. Football at the top end has been about money and marketing ever since Italia 90. There are exceptions, but it's rare.

Successful clubs will squeeze as much money as they can from the supporters, that is especially true in an affluent area. When it looked like we were progressing and had a shot at success (whatever that is defined as) most people were ok with it.

Now we're really really crap with a possibility of relegation, people are complaining.

It's that simple. To dress it up as otherwise is stupid.

 

[MattBackHome]

I always think this concept of selling your soul for success thing is utter nonsense. Football at the top end has been about money and marketing ever since Italia 90. There are exceptions, but it's rare.

Successful clubs will squeeze as much money as they can from the supporters, that is especially true in an affluent area. When it looked like we were progressing and had a shot at success (whatever that is defined as) most people were ok with it.

Now we're really really crap with a possibility of relegation, people are complaining.

It's that simple. To dress it up as otherwise is stupid.

Exactly this.

It's not like we're supporting Halliburton Albion FFS.

 

[Jim D]

I had heard somewhere, can't rember where now, that DK called Delia to get Bennett back here.

I wonder how that conversation went.....

'Oi, Delia, let's be 'avin 'im......' perhaps

 

[Hamilton]

Well, he can't quite use his usual line, in a thread he actually STARTED, can he?

He is however, obviously too busy to clarify how losing cosy personal contact with the club, in return for trading comedy football at a school athletics track, for football a division higher in the best new stadium in Britain, constitutes a 'deal with the Devil'.

Or to clarify why, if he has so much 'respect forTony Bloom' he writes that we have swapped 'the passion and commitment of Dick Knight for the money of Tony Bloom', as though money is ALL Bloom has given the club.

Very poor, imo.

Whoa! Hang on a second.

Before we get into all this stuff about what Bloom has given to the club, let's not lose sight of the fact that Bloom also stands to gain a lot. Sitting pretty as the owner of a stadium complex, with planning for a hotel, and the owner of a team that was on knocking on the door of the premiership is a nice place to be. Or it was. The Albion and everything associated with it is still an asset that will sit nicely on the books of Mr Blooms business empire - whatever that may or may not entail in its entirety as he's not that transparent.

I agree with you that Bloom has done a huge amount to take the club forward, just as you and [MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] played a part in saving it. That said, I know next to nothing about the bloke and his finances. Perhaps I should know more. Maybe [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] knows the precise details of the wealth upon which our dreamland is born, or maybe [MENTION=743]Henfield One[/MENTION] does. I don't, and I doubt many on here do.

I think you are right in calling attila to task for over-inflammatory language, but this is just going to descend into spat between rival supporters. The last thing we need.

I feel we did miss an opportunity when all this change took place. I would have loved to have seen a supporter's trust take a set on the board. That would have been a legacy of the fight in the bad old days. But, we didn't, and now we have to trust the intentions of one super-fan.

I'm not anti-Bloom. I think he's doing great things (despite his mistake in hiring Hyypia), but equally, I'm not going to follow blindly anymore.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Whoa! Hang on a second.

Before we get into all this stuff about what Bloom has given to the club, let's not lose sight of the fact that Bloom also stands to gain a lot. Sitting pretty as the owner of a stadium complex, with planning for a hotel, and the owner of a team that was on knocking on the door of the premiership is a nice place to be. Or it was. The Albion and everything associated with it is still an asset that will sit nicely on the books of Mr Blooms business empire - whatever that may or may not entail in its entirety as he's not that transparent.

I agree with you that Bloom has done a huge amount to take the club forward, just as you and [MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] played a part in saving it. That said, I know next to nothing about the bloke and his finances. Perhaps I should know more. Maybe [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] knows the precise details of the wealth upon which our dreamland is born, or maybe [MENTION=743]Henfield One[/MENTION] does. I don't, and I doubt many on here do.

I think you are right in calling attila to task for over-inflammatory language, but this is just going to descend into spat between rival supporters. The last thing we need.

I feel we did miss an opportunity when all this change took place. I would have loved to have seen a supporter's trust take a set on the board. That would have been a legacy of the fight in the bad old days. But, we didn't, and now we have to trust the intentions of one super-fan.

I'm not anti-Bloom. I think he's doing great things (despite his mistake in hiring Hyypia), but equally, I'm not going to follow blindly anymore.

Can't disagree with a lot of what you write (just as I agreed with MOST of what Atilla wrote). Just objected to his damning of Bloom with faint praise.

One area I fundamentally disagree with you on is your suggestion that Bloom can ever hope to recoup his money. Not a chance. And he knows that, and is comfortable with it. The club would need to be in the top ten in the Premier League, to be valued anywhere near the figure that Bloom has ploughed in (a figure which rises every month).

 

[The Spanish]

Exactly this.

It's not like we're supporting Halliburton Albion FFS.

If they had a works team, they would have to call themselves that

 

[Hamilton]

Can't disagree with a lot of what you write (just as I agreed with MOST of what Atilla wrote). Just objected to his damning of Bloom with faint praise.

One area I fundamentally disagree with you on is your suggestion that Bloom can ever hope to recoup his money. Not a chance. And he knows that, and is comfortable with it. The club would need to be in the top ten in the Premier League, to be valued anywhere near the figure that Bloom has ploughed in (a figure which rises every month).

Fair enough. It's a rich man's plaything I agree. It's still an asset that can be traded, but I accept he's unlikely to make a profit on this. He's certainly going to make an even bigger loss with Mr Hyypia in charge. Was it Branson that said "How do you become a millionaire? First become a billionaire. Then buy an airline." The same logic applies.

However, whilst it's a rich man's plaything, the pawns on the board often remain people like you and I.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The Faustian pact comes unstuck……

We all knew what we were fighting for: it took about 16 years, but we got it, and we celebrated. To do it we had to embrace the ‘money is everything and we’re customers now’ culture of modern football and replace the passion and hands-on commitment of Dick Knight with the money of Tony Bloom, another lifelong Albion fan, and a vast majority of Albion fans were happy to do that.

Even those of us who weren’t happy accepted that if our long fight to save the club we love was to have its final and glorious conclusion there was no alternative. We moved into the Amex, and apart from those who were priced out of the game or, like my wife, actually preferred the often sneered at ‘cottage industry’ of Withdean (she’s from Northwich, loves non league football and is an Albion fan by marriage, it’s different…) we relaxed, drank our Harveys, ate our pies - expensive to be sure, but the money is going to the club, what the hell - and trusted the shiny new corporate appointees to give us a shiny new future on the pitch to match our shiny new corporate stadium. Speaking personally, I was overjoyed to rediscover the simple pleasures of just being a football fan again and to leave everything else to the people paid lots of money to make sure it happened right. Yes, something is missing for me now in the age of modern football, but the wonderful trappings and the (until recently) on field success more than made up for that.

For a couple of years everything seemed fine: and it’s worth remembering that, compared to the war years, everything is still fine. The future of our club is secure: in the bad old days we used to DREAM about a time when moaning about the playing performance and management tactics was the only problem! But such comparisons are not enough. The fact is that the people in charge of our club are cocking up big time at the moment.

We need a manager with a clear understanding of the changes in tactics necessary to win matches, the ability to motivate the team and the obvious passion and commitment to inspire the fans to back him. And that manager should be in a position to employ the players he identifies as best suiting those tactics, rather than having to work with a squad brought in by an outsider whose current track record is nothing short of disastrous. Hyypia and Burke should go, and go now. A new manager should be in charge of squad recruitment. It’s not rocket science.

Albion fans most certainly are not ‘too nice’: we proved that over many years! What we most certainly have been is exhausted after the years of struggle, happy with our new surroundings and thoroughly prepared to give the new set up plenty of time to get things right. For a time that seemed to be the case but they are not getting things right any more. Relegation would be a disaster. In my opinion, it is time for us to combine 100% backing of the team with a strong show of opposition to Hyypia and Burke. A difficult balance but after all we’ve gone through I’m sure we can manage it! Yes, it’s modern corporate football but don’t underestimate the power of the fans – especially Albion fans - to change things. We ARE still listened to: in a different way to the old days, to be sure, but we are.

Burke OUT
Hyypia OUT

You talk about a Faustian pact - a pact with the Devil - but this makes no sense when your main beef seems to be that Burke has signed some bad players and Sami's a rubbish manager. There's nothing "Faustian" about that, most clubs have a problem getting in quality and finding a decent manager.

By using that language you're implying that we're dealing with something evil, and I don't buy that, I really don't. Anyone over the age of 45 would have grown up with bugger all footie on the telly, if you wanted to see live football you went to your local club so the Albion had a clear run at the kids back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. Nowadays we need the stadium, the academy and all that goes with it to look like a proper football club. Anything less and kids today will regard the club as tin pot and follow Chelsea or Arsenal in a heartbeat.

I genuinely believe Bloom and Barber are doing their best for this club, and I believe they are doing it with moral integrity. It is time to re-engage with the fans and ensure we don't lose the soul of the club, and definitely time to ship out Hyypia, probably Burke too, but don't imply what Bloom has done is something akin to the work of the devil.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You talk about a Faustian pact - a pact with the Devil - but this makes no sense when your main beef seems to be that Burke has signed some bad players and Sami's a rubbish manager. There's nothing "Faustian" about that, most clubs have a problem getting in quality and finding a decent manager.

By using that language you're implying that we're dealing with something evil, and I don't buy that, I really don't. Anyone over the age of 45 would have grown up with bugger all footie on the telly, if you wanted to see live football you went to your local club so the Albion had a clear run at the kids back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. Nowadays we need the stadium, the academy and all that goes with it to look like a proper football club. Anything less and kids today will regard the club as tin pot and follow Chelsea or Arsenal in a heartbeat.

I genuinely believe Bloom and Barber are doing their best for this club, and I believe they are doing it with moral integrity. It is time to re-engage with the fans and ensure we don't lose the soul of the club, and definitely time to ship out Hyypia, probably Burke too, but don't imply what Bloom has done is something akin to the work of the devil.

Quite

 

[Hotchilidog]

You talk about a Faustian pact - a pact with the Devil - but this makes no sense when your main beef seems to be that Burke has signed some bad players and Sami's a rubbish manager. There's nothing "Faustian" about that, most clubs have a problem getting in quality and finding a decent manager.

By using that language you're implying that we're dealing with something evil, and I don't buy that, I really don't. Anyone over the age of 45 would have grown up with bugger all footie on the telly, if you wanted to see live football you went to your local club so the Albion had a clear run at the kids back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. Nowadays we need the stadium, the academy and all that goes with it to look like a proper football club. Anything less and kids today will regard the club as tin pot and follow Chelsea or Arsenal in a heartbeat.

I genuinely believe Bloom and Barber are doing their best for this club, and I believe they are doing it with moral integrity. It is time to re-engage with the fans and ensure we don't lose the soul of the club, and definitely time to ship out Hyypia, probably Burke too, but don't imply what Bloom has done is something akin to the work of the devil.

I've been trying to come with an eloquent reply to this thread all day and thankfully Pavilionaire has done it for me. Spot on!

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

Before we get into all this stuff about what Bloom has given to the club, let's not lose sight of the fact that Bloom also stands to gain a lot. Sitting pretty as the owner of a stadium complex, with planning for a hotel, and the owner of a team that was on knocking on the door of the premiership is a nice place to be. Or it was. The Albion and everything associated with it is still an asset that will sit nicely on the books of Mr Blooms business empire - whatever that may or may not entail in its entirety as he's not that transparent.

Does TB come across like the sort of guy who hankers after the publicity that comes with owning a football club?
The bloke is a fan, a rich fan.

FFS, he's picked the wrong manager and there is a very strong possibility that the situation is being resolved as we speak.

I'm not sure I am loving the way some are trying to turn it into something bigger but there is definitely some agendas out there are pretty unpleasant.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I thought it was reported on this organ when burke was on big al and ade's show, he came over as a very personable guy and he explained his signings and all was rosy in the garden. I assume they asked the revealing questions therefore perhaps we all have a blinkered view of him?

Personable yes, rosy in the garden yes because he would say that. But definitely DOUR. You an be personable and help old ladies across the road but still be DOUR and BORING.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I thought it was reported on this organ when burke was on big al and ade's show, he came over as a very personable guy and he explained his signings and all was rosy in the garden. I assume they asked the revealing questions therefore perhaps we all have a blinkered view of him?

David Burke is the Director of football so he was also responsible for getting the Academy up & running at Lancing.

It's the recruitment side which seems to be having problems. He is the overseer of that too, but haven't we recently replaced the Player Identification Manager and brought in Paul Winstanley ?

 

[Hamilton]

Does TB come across like the sort of guy who hankers after the publicity that comes with owning a football club?
The bloke is a fan, a rich fan.

FFS, he's picked the wrong manager and there is a very strong possibility that the situation is being resolved as we speak.

I'm not sure I am loving the way some are trying to turn it into something bigger but there is definitely some agendas out there are pretty unpleasant.

I'm not disputing he's a fan. All I am saying is that he is also a businessman and given his trade, I doubt he would risk his wealth. What is his wealth? I don't know.

There is more publicly available information on many other Chairmen/women than there is on Mr Bloom. Star Lizard Consulting wouldn't appear to offer the backing to support the millions invested. Hull City may not like Assem Allam, but they can trace his wealth.

Tony Bloom is a fan, but he's under the microscope at the moment for having made wrong appointments. It's ok to ask questions. It is our club.

 

[symyjym]

I'm not disputing he's a fan. All I am saying is that he is also a businessman and given his trade, I doubt he would risk his wealth. What is his wealth? I don't know.

There is more publicly available information on many other Chairmen/women than there is on Mr Bloom. Star Lizard Consulting wouldn't appear to offer the backing to support the millions invested. Hull City may not like Assem Allam, but they can trace his wealth.

Tony Bloom is a fan, but he's under the microscope at the moment for having made wrong appointments. It's ok to ask questions. It is our club.

El Presidente said yesterday that Bloom has got £700m.........

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ss-we-are-in&p=6694047&viewfull=1#post6694047

He might have meant how much he is worth, not in his back pocket though.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

but don't imply what Bloom has done is something akin to the work of the devil.

If Tony Bloom is reading this - I doubt he would be thinking that. I am sure he would understand it as a literary allusion. People are taking this way too literally.

 

[El Presidente]

Whoa! Hang on a second.

Before we get into all this stuff about what Bloom has given to the club, let's not lose sight of the fact that Bloom also stands to gain a lot. Sitting pretty as the owner of a stadium complex, with planning for a hotel, and the owner of a team that was on knocking on the door of the premiership is a nice place to be. Or it was. The Albion and everything associated with it is still an asset that will sit nicely on the books of Mr Blooms business empire - whatever that may or may not entail in its entirety as he's not that transparent.

I agree with you that Bloom has done a huge amount to take the club forward, just as you and [MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] played a part in saving it. That said, I know next to nothing about the bloke and his finances. Perhaps I should know more. Maybe [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] knows the precise details of the wealth upon which our dreamland is born, or maybe [MENTION=743]Henfield One[/MENTION] does. I don't, and I doubt many on here do.

I think you are right in calling attila to task for over-inflammatory language, but this is just going to descend into spat between rival supporters. The last thing we need.

I feel we did miss an opportunity when all this change took place. I would have loved to have seen a supporter's trust take a set on the board. That would have been a legacy of the fight in the bad old days. But, we didn't, and now we have to trust the intentions of one super-fan.

I'm not anti-Bloom. I think he's doing great things (despite his mistake in hiring Hyypia), but equally, I'm not going to follow blindly anymore.

I've looked at all the companies that TB has an interest in here in the UK, and his wealth is not significant. Further ferretings around suggest that, like many extremely wealthy people, his assets are held all over the world (we know he spends part of the year in Australia, and has dipped into the Far East too). Speaking to some private wealth managers off the record suggests that he could easily 'lose' his investment in the Albion to date a few more times, if he so desired.

I'm not convinced that he would get much back on his investment though. The Amex is effectively closed 340 days a year remember, so it's a big lump of property that does nothing for over 11 months of the year.

As for the potential money to be made from a hotel, it should make a return, mainly because there is a shortage of room space in Brighton, but it won't make a fortune, nothing to make it a realistic return on his investment to date.

Bloom 'invests' in the Albion with his fan head on, not his money making head.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If Tony Bloom is reading this - I doubt he would be thinking that. I am sure he would understand it as a literary allusion. People are taking this way too literally.

I'm not taking it literally, at all. I don't actually think that Atilla actually thinks that Tony Bloom is actually beelzebub.

However, nor do I dismiss his choice of words, as simply a turn of phrase. Atilla is a professional wordsmith. The words he chooses to use, are deliberatly chosen, for whatever reason. And in this case, they absolutely required challenging.

 

[Questions]

Oh well, that's my book for the week read.

It all reminds me of Brando in On the Waterfront when asked 'what you rebelling against now'

He replies, "What you got"

Burke has signed some crap players so he is on very thin ice and Sammi is a crap manager and needs to go but how much did we sign this Faustian Pact for ?

It's not so cozy for some now and they are all having their say and talking like Archer and Belloti are in charge. We're just a bit shit at the moment.............just hang on ffs.