Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,329
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
If and When Wayne Rooney becomes both Englands most capped player and top scorer
- Thread starter Goring Gull
- Start date
spring hall convert
Well-known member
A little illustration of why Rooney's career has been so frustrating.
Look at Rooney and Christiano Ronaldo at 18, who was the better player? I'd argue it was Rooney.
Who's the better player now?
All because Ronaldo devoted himself to the game, looked after himself, didn't get distracted. The record books may have Rooney down as a great. Even if that were to be true, he could have been so much better.
Look at Rooney and Christiano Ronaldo at 18, who was the better player? I'd argue it was Rooney.
Who's the better player now?
All because Ronaldo devoted himself to the game, looked after himself, didn't get distracted. The record books may have Rooney down as a great. Even if that were to be true, he could have been so much better.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,749
Rooney is naturally talented, but his level of natural talent is nowhere near that of Ronaldo. He may have been better (or more effective) at 18, but he could never have been the player that Ronaldo is.
He should be better than he is, though.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
The more I practice the luckier I get.
Ronaldo is said to be obsessive about training. Rooney comes back into pre season training overweight.
Ronaldo is tee-total even in the off season.
All the small things add up. To be an elite footballer now you have to be 100% dedicated.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,749
Oh, I agree with all that, I agree with most of what you are saying.
I just think that the talent that Ronaldo has has never been matched by ANYONE, except perhaps Maradona.
Rooney, as I said, should be better, and would probably be World Class with the right attitude. Just not über World Class.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
You're probably right but we'll never know. As a teen Rooney was clearly the more effective player of the two.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
Someone in the crowd has a mega phone!!! It's wycombe all over again...." It's over there, it's over there"
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,749
Is this the match thread then? I thought it was the 'Snorefest' one.
That would be more apt, so far.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,628
You just know he will break both records while scoring a hat-trick in the 2018 WC final, for the full monty
Hehe. Excepting that the 7 goals in four years leading up to that may cast doubts over his selection.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
I miss those days ..
Jim Van Winkle
Well-known member
I had the same thought about this group of players. 2004 - We would have done better had Rooney not got injured. 2006 - Rooney's red card and Owen's injury against Sweden didn't help matters.
As for Rooney's best moment in a England shirt: The home qualifier for Euro 2004 against Turkey he was a raw talent and out of this world that night. Don't forget Turkey had finished 3rd at the 2002 WC.
BensGrandad
New member
If we had got a penalty in the last few minutes who would have taken it Rooney who usually does or Lambert who has never missed a penalty?
I think I will remember him as a guy who burst onto the international scene with an amazing tournament performance that was filled with promise, promise that seemed to dissipate the moment he signed for man utd. Whether because he felt he had made it and stopped trying, or because Ferguson convinced him international football wasn't as important as club football.
A player who lacked the dedication to truly become a great, but who was treated as a great by people who refuse to recognise he isn't, who had set him out as one and felt they had to dig their heels in.
A player who is constantly thought of as a first pick, must have, england player, but who brings down England's goals per game average and win rate down when he plays.
And a player who when I rant most about him, and his failure to produce/live up to the hype, will put in his best performances.
A player who lacked the dedication to truly become a great, but who was treated as a great by people who refuse to recognise he isn't, who had set him out as one and felt they had to dig their heels in.
A player who is constantly thought of as a first pick, must have, england player, but who brings down England's goals per game average and win rate down when he plays.
And a player who when I rant most about him, and his failure to produce/live up to the hype, will put in his best performances.
W.C.
New member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 4,927
A massive dissappointment for me. Unless of course he turns it around in the next tournament.
It wasn't just that he wasn't up to his usual standard in the 2010 World Cup especially, he was one of our worst performers. First touch all over the place, looking like a lower league clogger. No way is he world class.
It wasn't just that he wasn't up to his usual standard in the 2010 World Cup especially, he was one of our worst performers. First touch all over the place, looking like a lower league clogger. No way is he world class.
DumLum
Well-known member
You just know he will break both records while scoring a hat-trick in the 2018 WC final, for the full monty
If he did that I may start to accept him. Although I would probably judge him on what he went on to achieve after that. If he fails to score Hat-tricks at Euro 20 and the hot 2022 world cup final then I would have him down as somebody whose stats flattered to deceive.
Seagull on the wing
New member
Although he scored last night ,(the goalie helped him..) it was against 10 men,apart from his goal thought he was rubbish,he kept losing the ball,hitting it against defenders.
Sad to think that the number of goals scored count but the number played is not in the equasion. Rooney coming up for his 100th England appearance...42 goals.
Jimmy Greaves 57 appearances...44 goals (England under 23s, 12 appearances...13 goals)
HE WAS DYNAMITE...Tried to put video link from youtube but it would not link.
Sad to think that the number of goals scored count but the number played is not in the equasion. Rooney coming up for his 100th England appearance...42 goals.
Jimmy Greaves 57 appearances...44 goals (England under 23s, 12 appearances...13 goals)
HE WAS DYNAMITE...Tried to put video link from youtube but it would not link.
I've been mulling this over, and I don't think it's a great comparison.
Their records, with the exception of Player of the Year aren't desperately different, once you take the 'rubbish awards out.
I'd say the main difference between the 2 is geographical.
Ronaldo being born in Madeira means he was always going to travel and have his pick the best clubs that are best for him.
Rooney being an insular Englishman was, at the time, only ever going to sign for 1 club, Utd.
Rooney:-
Premier League (5): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13
Football League Cup (2): 2005–06, 2009–10
FA Community Shield (3): 2007, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008
Individual
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2009–10
PFA Young Player of the Year (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2): 2005–06, 2009–10
PFA Premier League Team of the Year (3): 2005–06, 2009–10, 2011–12
FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2009–10* Goal of the Season (3): 2004–05, 2006–07, 2010–11
Goal of the Month (6): October 2003, January 2005, April 2005, January 2007, March 2007, February 2011
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (2): 2005–06, 2009–10
BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year (1): 2002* Bravo Award (1): 2003
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (1): 2004–05
Premier League Player of the Month (5): February 2005, December 2005, March 2006, October 2007, January 2010
Barclays Premier League Player of the Year (1): 2009–10
Premier League 20 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2011–12): Best Goal (vs. Manchester City, 12 February 2011)
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (1): 2008
England Player of the Year (2): 2008, 2009
Golden Boot Landmark Award 20 (1): 2009–10
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (1): 2011
UEFA Champions League Top assists (1): 2013–14
ref: [265]
Ronaldo:-
Manchester United
Premier League (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
FA Cup (1): 2003–04
Football League Cup (2): 2005–06, 2008–09
FA Community Shield (1): 2007
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008
Real Madrid
La Liga (1): 2011–12
Copa del Rey (2): 2010–11, 2013–14
Supercopa de España (1): 2012
UEFA Champions League (1): 2013–14
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2014
International
Portugal
UEFA European Championship:
Runner-up (1): 2004
Bronze (1): 2012
Individual
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament (2): 2004, 2012
Bravo Award (1): 2004
UEFA Team of the Year (8): 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (3): 2003–04, 2006–07, 2007–08
PFA Premier League Team of the Year (4): 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2006–07
PFA Players' Player of the Year (2): 2006–07, 2007–08
FWA Footballer of the Year (2): 2006–07, 2007–08
Barclays Player of the Year (2): 2006–07, 2007–08
Premier League Player of the Month (4): November 2006, December 2006, January 2008, March 2008
ESM Team of the Year (6): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13, 2013–14
Premier League Golden Boot (1): 2007–08
European Golden Shoe (3): 2007–08, 2010–11, 2013–14
FIFA FIFPro World XI (7): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
UEFA Champions League top scorer (3): 2007–08, 2012–13, 2013–14
UEFA Club Forward of the Year (1): 2007–08
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup Silver Ball (1): 2008
Ballon d'Or (1): 2008
FIFPro World Player of the Year (1): 2008
FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2008
Onze d'Or (2): 2008, 2013
World Soccer Player of the Year (2): 2008, 2013
FIFA Puskás Award (1): 2009
La Liga top scorer (2): 2010–11, 2013–14
Copa del Rey top goalscorer (1): 2010–11
Trofeo Alfredo Di Stéfano (3): 2011–12, 2012–13, 2013–14
UEFA Euro Top scorer (1): 2012
La Liga Player of the Month (1): November 2013
LFP Most Valuable Player (1): 2012–13
IFFHS World's Best Top Goal Scorer: 2013[535]
FIFA Ballon d'Or (1): 2013
ESPY Awards Best International Athlete (1): 2014[536]
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2013–14
UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2013–14
Although he scored last night ,(the goalie helped him..) it was against 10 men,apart from his goal thought he was rubbish,he kept losing the ball,hitting it against defenders.
Sad to think that the number of goals scored count but the number played is not in the equasion. Rooney coming up for his 100th England appearance...42 goals.
Jimmy Greaves 57 appearances...44 goals (England under 23s, 12 appearances...13 goals)
HE WAS DYNAMITE...Tried to put video link from youtube but it would not link.
One of my pet hates is people comparing plays from two completely different eras, how many games finish 10-6 now?
it was much easier to score in those days.