Downsides to Poyet? - Sunderland fan here

[symyjym]

When will people understand the manager and indeed players have no loyalty to a club. The loyalty is the fans. Poyet did nothing outrageous, he just has ambition and that is to be applauded, that is why the guy is a WINNER and most likely always will be. It is not personal, it is just the way it is in football in the UK.

You say that, but we could easily say that letting Murray go and bringing in CMS for £3.5m wasn't the best deal of his career, and with all due repect to CMS that is a massive amount of money for a league one player that Gus insisted he would be building the team around.

 

[One Love]

There is negativity towards him, despite being an Albion legend, because many of our fans feel they need to "pick sides" regarding the whole saga before he left us. Naturally they will choose the side of the club, despite nobody really knowing what happened.

Eh? Well you have picked sides too.

Not so naturally you have chosen the side of Gus and turned against your club despite not knowing what happened.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

He had his contract terminated for gross misconduct and has not challenged this via legal avenues.

That he suggests that he might have done something wrong.

We know for a fact that he refused to handle the retained list. That is a breach of contract and constitutes gross misconduct in itself. I've no doubt that that there were other reasons.
It was handy for the club to use employment law to sack him as it meant he couldn't be paid 2.5 million compensation.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Expect Villa or Newcastle fans to be asking Sunderland fans the same question next August...

 

[Working class pride]

A very good manager who created an excellent defence and midfield. He failed to get us promotion because he got his strikers wrong. He let go Murray, a skilful player and clinical finisher. Many of us predicted that was a mistake when he did it and sure enough Murray scored 30 odd goals for our bitter rivals and got Palace promotion instead of us. But that was one (massive) error but in the round he played football as it should be played and he was an excellent manager. Some say he didnt like it when a bloke called Barber was appointed CEO at Brighton because Barber sacked him at Spurs. I have no idea if that is true but his press conference and actions after we lost to Palace in the play offs were not on and he was sacked.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

He had his contract terminated for gross misconduct and has not challenged this via legal avenues.

That he suggests that he might have done something wrong.

Possibly but I am old fashioned and like to hear both parties evidence before passing a sentance.

 

[Hamilton]

We know for a fact that he refused to handle the retained list. That is a breach of contract and constitutes gross misconduct in itself. I've no doubt that that there were other reasons.
It was handy for the club to use employment law to sack him as it meant he couldn't be paid 2.5 million compensation.

I agree that the club acted courageously and with integrity in calling his bluff and sticking to employment law. That was smart. They might have handled some of the communication surrounding it a little better, but otherwise they did the right thing.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Gus's downsides depend on you as a fan.

I roll my eyes when loan players talk about how much they like it at their loan club and how they would definitely be open to a permanent move if things work out that way and so on, when deep down they know they're just there to get fit/experience/put in a shop window/off the wage bill for the remainder of his contract and that they would want too much money to drop down to that division. I much prefer the honesty.

From his first day with us Gus has made no secret of his ambition to manage at the highest level possible. Personally, I was fine with that. But a lot of fans didn't like it. Especially in later years when he had proven himself a capable manager and so the prospect of prem teams coming in for him was no longer some long shot, but a very realistic possibility.


Another big issue is that we lost in the play offs to our rivals Crystal Palace. We should have won the first game, but for a crossbar. The second was also a close game, a finger tip on to the crossbar, a goal line clearance stopped us taking the lead in a season where if we took the lead we did not lose. Because we lost to them it hurt some people more than it would have otherwise. This has led to a lot of people going off him.

After the game he was asked what his plans were and he said he'd need to know what sort of investment the club would make or if the club had hit its ceiling. I think hearing this with the hurt of such a loss still stinging probably exacerbated things for some fans.

Some fans started to complain he was always demanding more money (I don't remember that, I remember him highlighting how well the squad did despite our place in playing budget tables). Something they said was worse because his budget was bigger than any brighton manager in history (ignoring inflation of currency, inflation of player values, and that he was competing with other championship clubs, not historical brighton ones). This argument would lose weight when people would call for Harry Redknapp to replace him. I didn't have a concern over this because lots of managers talk about budget and how they'd like more.


I think there is also an element of "the club v Poyet, I won't question the club so Poyet must be bad" about things. There was a time when lots of posters on here, and even now certain posters, will jump on any praise Gus gets and treat it like a slap in the face of the board as if it's an either/or thing.


I would say you can't really deny his qualities on the field, the way he gets the best out of some players, the style of play he introduces, the success he brings, but because of the above, there are people who try (apparently, anyone could have done what he did, besides it was nothing to do with him and all about Bloom picking him and giving him money poyet was irrelevant, we never did anything but pass it between centre backs and the keeper etc).



So, if you're not upset that managers see your club as just a job that he will eventually leave for something bigger, and doesn't placate you with false claims of loyalty, if you can understand sometimes you will lose, that sometimes a manager goes as far as he can with a club and that club goes as far as it can with that manager, that sometimes a match will be a dud, and sometimes he might, like so many managers, talk about wanting more money, and should things end ugly that there are two sides to every story rather than blindly assuming he is at fault for everything and your club never ever ever makes mistakes or has any part to play in a working relationship breaking down, the only negative is that he will one day leave.

If you're the sort of fan that prefers false claims of loyalty, and thinks if you question your club you're disloyal etc. his personality will really irritate you.


EDITED TO ADD: In this post I mean to make no judgement on which way any one on here falls in those categories above. There are plenty of other threads where it has been discussed.

I can see where you are coming from with a lot of this, but deeply feel there are more reasons to dislike Gus than you highlight, and think you are really way off with your brief paragraph before the EDIT.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

We know for a fact that he refused to handle the retained list. That is a breach of contract and constitutes gross misconduct in itself. I've no doubt that that there were other reasons.
It was handy for the club to use employment law to sack him as it meant he couldn't be paid 2.5 million compensation.

But why did he do this ?

 

[upthealbion1970]

But why did he do this ?

Something to do with a call he made to TB in march?

 

[golddene]

We know for a fact that he refused to handle the retained list. That is a breach of contract and constitutes gross misconduct in itself. I've no doubt that that there were other reasons.
It was handy for the club to use employment law to sack him as it meant he couldn't be paid 2.5 million compensation.

And if maybe Ellis Short or any other prem chairman had paid the compensation due to us as a club when Gus decided that he wanted to leave in March 2013 we would have gained 2.5 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buzzer]

It was handy for the club to use employment law to sack him as it meant he couldn't be paid 2.5 million compensation.

Err...how else could they do it? All employment contracts are governed by employment law aren't they?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

And if maybe Ellis Short or any other prem chairman had paid the compensation due to us as a club when Gus decided that he wanted to leave in March 2013 we would have gained 2.5 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If only the compensation had been paid. Sure, Gus would have left, but it would have been an amicable split, and who knows, without the sulking, and a new man in charge, we may even have been promoted.

 

[Baldseagull]

Imagine you had a had just been beaten by Newcastle, the defeat meaning you missed the Play off final. You want to hear some consoling words from your manager along the lines of "we will have to put it right next year", and instead you get to hear him telling you he is off because he has taken the club as far as it can go, but he can go further.
You find out he was flirting with other clubs and telling the Chairman he wanted to leave well before this, and all of a sudden all the shitty bits about him that you ignored because he got us playing excellent football some of the time, come into focus.
He will have tantrums, he will say things you wish he hadn't and you will forgive him cos he is Gus, and he smiles a lot, and the football is decent, and then, when he eventually gets a better offer he will tell you that you are tinpot and he is world class and so he will be moving on.

 

[Buzzer]

Possibly but I am old fashioned and like to hear both parties evidence before passing a sentance.

A laudable position. There's nothing worse than people jumping to conclusions when they don't know the circumstances of the sacking.

Poyet did nothing outrageous

Oh.

 

[sahel]

If only the compensation had been paid. Sure, Gus would have left, but it would have been an amicable split, and who knows, without the sulking, and a new man in charge, we may even have been promoted.

Poyet in my view cost Brighton promotion in two successive years through poor tactics and very defensive team selection. He brought gifted players to the club and then did not pick them. He might be good at keeping Sunderland in the premiership but don't expect interesting expansive football. As for his behaviour at the end of his tenure well done Tony Bloom !

 

[Jack Daniels]

Poyet:-

Pro - football genius, who's tactics will be better served with better players. Can't see Sunderland going down with him in charge.

Oozes passion for the game. Lives/breathes football.

Con:- complete lunatic. Opens gob before engaging brain on every occasion. Massive ego and nothing will ever be enough for him.

Summery - you have the management version of Luis Suarez. Completely brilliant but utterly frustrating.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Err...how else could they do it? All employment contracts are governed by employment law aren't they?

Most managers are sacked and paid off. The club saved a lot of money by using employment law. FFP.

 

[Lawro's Lip]

Are you getting the picture. He was also fortunate to be our manager at a time when we moved to a brand new stadium, financed by the chairman he then fell out with.

 

[Premiership Dream]

Watch this video and make ur own opinion do u want to hear this when uve just lost to ur biggest rivals, imagine uve just lost to Newcastle in a final and poyet puts in a interview like this.......poyet won league one with us cos tony bloom our chairman got his cheque book out ......

Brighton made poyet not the other way round !!!!!

Enjoy cos when a bigger club come in for him he will be off, u are just another stepping stone to his dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVnhgIAA7jc