Clarification from Paul Barber on Dick Knight Selling his shares

[Not Andy Naylor]

Who in their right mind would want to spend a million pounds for 1% of a loss making business.

I really don't understand that question. Or maybe you didn't understand mine. Purdew and Gold were around when DK was chairman, and were offering him more than he subsequently got from TB and considerably more than he will make from this offer.

 

[Hamilton]

I'm embarrassed by this thread. Truly embarrassed.

The idea that DK wants to sell his book with PR - ridiculous

The question of why DK didn't hand shares to fans before - ridiculous (take a look at the Amex, it wouldn't be there otherwise).

The idea that DK is being disloyal to the club - ridiculous (this is a guy that put his livelihood on the line when we were about to go down whilst other Sussex millionaires looked on - and I'm not talking about TB)

The suggestion that it's somehow a bad idea to want fan representation at AGMs - ridiculous

The idea that the sun shines out of TB's backside - ridiculous

The idea that the sun shines out of DK's backside - ridiculous

The suggestion that we have fans on the board already - ridiculous

The idea that we don't have people on the board that have the Albion's interests at heart - ridiculous

This is about one man who has put his heart and soul into the Albion standing up and saying "now that I've done my time at the Albion and I can't control the clubs destiny, I want to do something, no matter how small, to make sure that fans are able to hold the club to account and demand transparency" this is the same transparency we never had in 1984.

I trust TB, but I know next to nothing about him. I knew about DK.

Now, let's get behind TB, let's see if we can get some representation (it's not as if we'll have casting votes) and let's take the club forward responsibly.

 

[Creaky]

To be honest, it's all getting a bit pathetic. DK knows only too well that he can't sell the shares to the fans without the other shareholders say so. He has engineered a situation to gain as much publicity for his book as he can. I would be interested to learn from anyone who has read the book whether there are in fact any damning statements about TB, other members of the board or even PB? He may well have been critical of some of the decisions but does he actually slag anyone off? If not, what could be the only reason for not letting the club see an advanced copy other than to generate publicity. The share thing is just a side show that seems to have hoodwinked some of those blindingly romantic fans that don't live in the real world!!

As others have said, if DK was so keen to champion fans with shares, he could quite easily have discussed with the board to sell a small percentage at the time TB took over or even earlier without affecting the overall voting position of the board. Also, bearing in mind the revelations originally revealed by Paul Samrah concerning the articles of association, it's disappointing that DK now publicly seeks to bypass them!!!

DK, enjoy your retirement and enjoy watching the Albion rather than getting yourself embroiled in un-necessary shenanigans with the current board. Don't risk threatening your existing legendary status and splitting fans. We have just come through one episode where some fans still refuse to get off a certain bus and it would be a shame if your standing is clouded by controversy. Most legends are not, as history shows, flawless.

Let's just assume for one minute that the whole share saga is purely a publicity tool to increase the sale of his book, (personally I don't believe this but it could possibly be) - then so what is wrong with that

 

[Hamilton]

To be honest, it's all getting a bit pathetic. DK knows only too well that he can't sell the shares to the fans without the other shareholders say so. He has engineered a situation to gain as much publicity for his book as he can. I would be interested to learn from anyone who has read the book whether there are in fact any damning statements about TB, other members of the board or even PB? He may well have been critical of some of the decisions but does he actually slag anyone off? If not, what could be the only reason for not letting the club see an advanced copy other than to generate publicity. The share thing is just a side show that seems to have hoodwinked some of those blindingly romantic fans that don't live in the real world!!

As others have said, if DK was so keen to champion fans with shares, he could quite easily have discussed with the board to sell a small percentage at the time TB took over or even earlier without affecting the overall voting position of the board. Also, bearing in mind the revelations originally revealed by Paul Samrah concerning the articles of association, it's disappointing that DK now publicly seeks to bypass them!!!

DK, enjoy your retirement and enjoy watching the Albion rather than getting yourself embroiled in un-necessary shenanigans with the current board. Don't risk threatening your existing legendary status and splitting fans. We have just come through one episode where some fans still refuse to get off a certain bus and it would be a shame if your standing is clouded by controversy. Most legends are not, as history shows, flawless.

Of course he knows that, which is why he is forcing the issue. I'm sure he'd sell them at half price if he could, but HMRC would not allow that.

The only people making this pathetic is us lot on here throwing our self-important p1ssing hissy fits. FFS!

And I never swear!

 

[Stat Brother]

I really don't understand that question. Or maybe you didn't understand mine.

Maybe I missed your point.
The fact still stands, nobody but us, would buy Dick's worthless shares for £1 each.

 

[drew]

Of course he knows that, which is why he is forcing the issue. I'm sure he'd sell them at half price if he could, but HMRC would not allow that.

The only people making this pathetic is us lot on here throwing our self-important p1ssing hissy fits. FFS!

And I never swear!

What determines the price then? I thought the only caveat was that he couldn't give them away (I will of course cede to anyone that knows different) and if that is the case, he could sell them for £1, 50p or even 1p each.

 

[Beach Hut]

He was in fine form on the train home tonight and insisted I buy his book - shall I ?

 

[drew]

Let's just assume for one minute that the whole share saga is purely a publicity tool to increase the sale of his book, (personally I don't believe this but it could possibly be) - then so what is wrong with that

The only possible thing wrong with it is that it could be construed as an attempt to undermine the existing board and in particular the majority shareholder. Of course, it could all be a ruse that TB is in on, including not allowing the launch at the Amex, just to generate a bit of publicity. Unlikely but, where ad men are involved, who knows!

 

[Ernest]

he was in fine form on the train home tonight and insisted i buy his book - shall i ?

traitor

 

[Beach Hut]

traitor

He asked me who I was and boy was I tempted to say you...........

 

[London Irish]

I'm a tiny, tiny shareholder in London Irish rugby club but it's always good fun for me turning up to the AGM and asking the powers that be how things are going. Bless Dick for giving a huge number of Albion fans that opportunity in future. It will be a small thing to counteract the relentless corporatisation that the club is going through (we will end up at the other end of the footballing universe to a club like St Pauli for example, whose fans campaigned against a new stadium, but that's the path we chose to go down).

All those huffing and puffing about the share sale have the simple choice not to bother taking part, more for the rest of us who do want to, I'll certainly buy a few.

The extracts of the book I've read so far do seem to reveal a certain mock heroic grandeur about his progress through the past 20 years but I suspect he was told by his commissioning editor to make it as dramatic and as readable as possible, it's not as if we don't know the ending.

 

[Creaky]

The only possible thing wrong with it is that it could be construed as an attempt to undermine the existing board and in particular the majority shareholder. Of course, it could all be a ruse that TB is in on, including not allowing the launch at the Amex, just to generate a bit of publicity. Unlikely but, where ad men are involved, who knows!

How on Earth can DK wanting to sell his shares to the fans, (whatever the purpose behind that offer), be seen as undermining the existing board?

I don't think any less of TB nor the other board members because DK wants to sell his shares - of course that may change if they try to block the sale but I don't think they will.

 

[Ernest]

He asked me who I was and boy was I tempted to say you...........

You should HAVE told HIM you're my AGENT

 

[Hamilton]

What determines the price then? I thought the only caveat was that he couldn't give them away (I will of course cede to anyone that knows different) and if that is the case, he could sell them for £1, 50p or even 1p each.

HMRC can tax you if you buy a share under value. So, if you buy a £1 share at 50p, then it's still £1. You've earned 50p. HMRC would like some of your 50p. That makes things complicated.

 

[Creaky]

Maybe I missed your point.
The fact still stands, nobody but us, would buy Dick's worthless shares for £1 each.

Let's hope that is the case

And the shares aren't worthless until the point arises where nobody is willing to buy them - until then they are worth what people are willing to pay for them - I'll certainly buy some if they actually do become if available.

 

[BensGrandad]

Sorry but I cannot see one advantage of having a voice on the board with virtually no power to me it is pointless as TB or PB or whoever could get just as much feedback if they wanted it by stopping supporters going into the ground and speaking to them.

I remember Greg Stanley, yes him, suggesting a fans representative on the board to Bryan Bedson and the answer that was given when he shows his money he can join the boarfd and have a say in how the club is run. Would that be the same answer given now?

 

[lighthouse]

HMRC can tax you if you buy a share under value. So, if you buy a £1 share at 50p, then it's still £1. You've earned 50p. HMRC would like some of your 50p. That makes things complicated.

Under what piece of tax legislation would that be?

The sale of a asset at less than its real value could be considered a gift (of the difference). That doesn't create a tax liability in itself, although it could be interesting if DK did not then survive 7 years. Even then the value of the 'gift' would have to be over £250. The fact that the company is an unquoted company probably overrides that in any event.

 

[BensGrandad]

Let's hope that is the case

And the shares aren't worthless until the point arises where nobody is willing to buy them - until then they are worth what people are willing to pay for them - I'll certainly buy some if they actually do become if available.

S you are saying you would buy them just to sell on and make a profit if possible as in normal share dealing.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Under what piece of tax legislation would that be?

Yes, but the nominal value is £1 a share and so a any price less than this ignores the lower price and takes the higher price for tax purposes.

 

[Creaky]

S you are saying you would buy them just to sell on and make a profit if possible as in normal share dealing.

No - but that doesn't mean they have no value - I have no intention of selling my wedding ring but it still has a value.

They also have another potential benefit - if at some time in the future any of the 'major' shareholders wish to sell their shares then these would also have to be offered to any fan holding shares.