"Get Britain Out of the EU" says the Daily Express Special Edition

[1959]

Without looking at any evidence whatsoever, I think it's safe to say that if the Daily Express says it's a good idea, it's clearly a terrible idea.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Bit like our coalition government then.

I am sure that all members of the Government were elected?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Atm we get less out of it than what we put into it because we're not a very big agricultural country. But if we leave we'll lose even more money anyway because even less countries will buy from us.

We would still trade with other European nations under EFTA , other countries worldwide ie China won't stop trading with us just because we've left the EU.

 

[Storer 68]

I couldn't disagree more........ One of the worst things about the EU is that its so patently undemocratic, unelected politicians setting laws that affect us, appointed individuals that neither we voted for or we can vote out.

National referendums in some countries, where the people speak against further integration, only to get them to re-vote again until they get the required results or prevent them voting period.

I couldn't stand the last Gordon Brown lead government, but I would still much sooner have him or any other elected British Prime minister running our country and setting our laws, however rightly or wrongly and from whatever party than an unelected appointee. However badly the British PM may do, at the very least he's British and doing what he sees best for Britian, and if we don't like him/her we can boot them out. Not so the EU. How can for instance, a Lithuanian or Hungarian MEP truly understand or even care for British problems?...... Yet they could theoretically be involved in setting laws for us and we can do nothing to get rid of them.

Free trade was the original remit and nothing more, open borders is also a benefit, free movement of trade and people only, but beyond that nothing that has been done has happened with recourse to democracy. Its an anti-democratic Political project imposed upon the masses, that is stripping national powers in the hands of democratically elected leaders in Westminster and putting them into undemocratically leaders in Brussels who then dictate.

Gordon Brown should be praised for stopping Blair signing up to the Euro and ECB exchange/interest rates.

Whoever controls the money controls the country. If I controlled your bank accounts and all your money, how free are you?

Its a beast, a political elite 'we know best' super project, it stinks of cronyism and I would sooner be in a poorer independent country outside it (not that we will be despite the propaganda) than inside this festering dictatorial monster. I will run to the ballot box to tick a massive X in OUT, not that I will ever be allowed to vote.

well you could have voted in 2009, after all around 140 million europeans did vote to make it full of "patently undemocratic unelected politicians".

 

[bhaexpress]

I voted against joining the EEC when the Labour Government had the referendum. That was after the fat Tory Poof took us in without asking. If we left the EEC the jobs shortage would probably diminish too. Frankly I'd rather see Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians and Americans working here than most Europeans.

 

[bhaexpress]

This.

There is also the fact that being a member of the EU allows British people like me to live and work pretty much anywhere in Europe without having to go through the rigmarole of obtaining work permits, etc. It isn't all about immigration...

The problem is that it also means that they can come here and claim benefit. Yes, it does happen, I've seen a guy who needed a translator to sign on.

 

[Common as Mook]

the fat Tory Poof .

What a lovely chap you are.

 

[matthew]

Most of our trade is with EU countries

 

[matthew]

We would still trade with other European nations under EFTA , other countries worldwide ie China won't stop trading with us just because we've left the EU.

Most of our trade is with EU countries

 

[cunning fergus]

We opted to still sell beer in pints, we opted not to join the Euro, we opted out of the Schengen Agreement to name but the three most important (starting with THE most important...)

Hmmmmm, we did however as you live in Cyprus you may not have noticed recently how our pint glasses now have the "CE" branding stamped on them....................hard to find one with the crown these days.

As for "opting" to sell in other imperial measures some UK citizens have been criminalised for selling goods in imperial to customers who want imperial measures as oppose to metric. Little wonder that some people are suspicous.

 

[cunning fergus]

I couldn't disagree more........ One of the worst things about the EU is that its so patently undemocratic, unelected politicians setting laws that affect us, appointed individuals that neither we voted for or we can vote out.

National referendums in some countries, where the people speak against further integration, only to get them to re-vote again until they get the required results or prevent them voting period.

I couldn't stand the last Gordon Brown lead government, but I would still much sooner have him or any other elected British Prime minister running our country and setting our laws, however rightly or wrongly and from whatever party than an unelected appointee. However badly the British PM may do, at the very least he's British and doing what he sees best for Britian, and if we don't like him/her we can boot them out. Not so the EU. How can for instance, a Lithuanian or Hungarian MEP truly understand or even care for British problems?...... Yet they could theoretically be involved in setting laws for us and we can do nothing to get rid of them.

Free trade was the original remit and nothing more, open borders is also a benefit, free movement of trade and people only, but beyond that nothing that has been done has happened with recourse to democracy. Its an anti-democratic Political project imposed upon the masses, that is stripping national powers in the hands of democratically elected leaders in Westminster and putting them into undemocratically leaders in Brussels who then dictate.

Gordon Brown should be praised for stopping Blair signing up to the Euro and ECB exchange/interest rates.

Whoever controls the money controls the country. If I controlled your bank accounts and all your money, how free are you?

Its a beast, a political elite 'we know best' super project, it stinks of cronyism and I would sooner be in a poorer independent country outside it (not that we will be despite the propaganda) than inside this festering dictatorial monster. I will run to the ballot box to tick a massive X in OUT, not that I will ever be allowed to vote.

Not so sure. Labour made a pledge in their 2005 Referendum (page 84) to put an EU Constitution to the British people. The Lisbon Treaty was duly signed by Brown without a referendum. As I recall the Iron Chancellor signed the treaty a number of hours after the signing ceremony such was his shame.............I'll give him that.

 

[cunning fergus]

well you could have voted in 2009, after all around 140 million europeans did vote to make it full of "patently undemocratic unelected politicians".

Most people who voted in 2009 were for anti-EU parties. As I recall UKIP got more votes than Labour, and even the BNP polled 950k. Even if the turnout backed UKIP 100% the will of this country would be subsumed by the other 125m voters..............which is patently undemocratic. Then again we are only referring to the EU Parliament. They are just rubber stampers to the Commission. Do you remember voting for Barroso, Van Rumpoy or Ashton? These are the f***ers who make the law for the quislings in the Parliament to vote for.

 

[looney]

Switzerland has an advantage of exporting services that are in demand, and therefore does not suffer significantly from being outside the EU.

As much as people may dislike the City of London, it is a massive contributor to the Treasury, and a large part of it would relocate to Frankfurt if we pulled out of the EU.

Much of what happens in Strasbourg is odious, but the economic costs of being outside would be massive (no Japanese car factories for a start in the likes of Sunderland etc.).

But worst of all, how would find a reliable plumber?

Still digging up fake scaremongering stories?

Nissan has said it wouldn't relocate, there would be no need to with free trade agreements.

The City is more worried about business relocating outside the EU than within it.

some seem proud that we do almost half our trade with the EU. With the USA and other emerging superpowers being outside the EU the what you are arguing fo is..

1 Diminishing returns to scale.

2. Corruption as the EU accounts haven't been signed of for donkies years.

3 Uncontrollable population flows that could treble the longterm unemployment levels as well as impact on quality of life.

4 A democratic abyss rather than deficit.

Ive read 3 pages and all the Pro-euros can do is make snide remarks, apart from you who produces weak outdated arguments.

 

[Stoo82]

Most people who voted in 2009 were for anti-EU parties. As I recall UKIP got more votes than Labour, and even the BNP polled 950k. Even if the turnout backed UKIP 100% the will of this country would be subsumed by the other 125m voters..............which is patently undemocratic. Then again we are only referring to the EU Parliament. They are just rubber stampers to the Commission. Do you remember voting for Barroso, Van Rumpoy or Ashton? These are the f***ers who make the law for the quislings in the Parliament to vote for.

Yep.

We vote for the parliament for sure. But the people at the top, who makes the decisions that affect our lives, I don't remember voting for them, or for voteing on NOT voting for them!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Still digging up fake scaremongering stories?

Nissan has said it wouldn't relocate, there would be no need to with free trade agreements.

The City is more worried about business relocating outside the EU than within it.

some seem proud that we do almost half our trade with the EU. With the USA and other emerging superpowers being outside the EU the what you are arguing fo is..

1 Diminishing returns to scale.

2. Corruption as the EU accounts haven't been signed of for donkies years.

3 Uncontrollable population flows that could treble the longterm unemployment levels as well as impact on quality of life.

4 A democratic abyss rather than deficit.

Ive read 3 pages and all the Pro-euros can do is make snide remarks, apart from you who produces weak outdated arguments.

Regarding your final sentence I am genuinely uncertain how the following post (page 3 of the thread) constitutes a 'snide remark'.


I'm entirely happy to be an Englishman. My ancestors came over from Denmark in little boats. My country has no head of state, no army, no parliament and no national anthem. It has been in a tight political and economic union for hundreds of years and yet I still feel English. The union of the United Kingdom, for good or bad, has not destroyed Scottish, Welsh or English identity. So how on earth can people say that being in a much looser union with other countries destroy everything we stand for?

You cannot have a truly common market without a common currency (or at least a common exchange rate policy) and you can't have a common currency (as is now obvious) without a common fiscal policy. But does it really matter if we adopt the levels of financial morality of, say, Germany or Holland?

The fact is that successive governments have kept our economy afloat in part by trashing our own currency. Hague and Fox and others argue that this ability to gerrymander sterling in this way is a sign of independence and patriotism. It's the opposite. The bombed out state of the pound has led directly to the situation where is seems every other utility is foreign-owned. Our motor industry is run from Japan, India, Germany and Detroit.

Of course there's an argument against the European Union. There can be an argument against almost anything. But for most people arguing against the EU is just a cover for a visceral distrust of foreigners, particularly those with 'shiny shoes and small moustaches'. It's the political equivalent of standing up if you hate Palace. And it's nasty.

I would vastly rather be a member of the European community than a dangling plaything of successive US presidents. Send for Angela!

 

[peterward]

Most of our trade is with EU countries

It has nothing to do with trade, the common trading agreement EEC was a good idea and still is.

Which European country has the highest standard of living per capita? Norway, a non EU country. Switzerland doesn't grow a great deal and has a very strong economy.

If we were in the euro now, our fiscal situation would be far worse off - that is a fact. We have the flexibility to enable quantitive easing (printing money), devalue our currency or change interest rates to stimulate OUR economy, not so with full financial union...... One size fits all policies from the European central bank, leaving sovereign nations powerless to alter the situations...... which is the major cause of the Greek crisis.

Trade with the EU? thats a red herring, our predominant income is the city of London and the services industry (73% of GDP), and that will not change.

Agriculture 0.6% and manufacturing are very small and even so, we should stick with the original EEC agreements, but end this dictated full political/financial union madness.

A political and financial union that has gone way beyond the original good trade agreement thats been forced on the masses and which is stripping hard won national powers and laws putting them into the hands of the EU and its appointed officials. Our sovereignty and independence is being transferred to Brussels.

 

[peterward]

But for most people arguing against the EU is just a cover for a visceral distrust of foreigners, particularly those with 'shiny shoes and small moustaches'. It's the political equivalent of standing up if you hate Palace. And it's nasty.

thats utter horse shit, I am married to an Eastern European and my ancestry in non English....... It has nothing to do with people from other nations at all, thats just totally false propaganda...... as has been said the Yes camp seem to think their best argument is to make false accusations, snide remarks or innuendo, and thus avoid the simple facts (as my post above).

I wouldn't be against it, if it was a well thought out and democratic institution that worked and had the popular support of a majority of the electorate in each country, but it doesn't.

I wouldn't mind so much if we could vote for its leaders or throw them out, but we can't.

I wouldn't mind so much if we had more of a say in a raft of rules and regs imposed on us, but we don't

Its pieces of a jigsaw that doesn't fit, forced into each other...... a political elitists folly, that erodes our democratic freedom.

Voting for MEPS!! thats like being able to vote for backbenchers in Zimbabwe, whilst Mugabe dictates every minister and every rule.

 

[bhaexpress]

What a lovely chap you are.

Okay, how would you describe Margaret Thatcher's predecessor ? What a drip you are.

 

[cunning fergus]

Regarding your final sentence I am genuinely uncertain how the following post (page 3 of the thread) constitutes a 'snide remark'.


I'm entirely happy to be an Englishman. My ancestors came over from Denmark in little boats. My country has no head of state, no army, no parliament and no national anthem. It has been in a tight political and economic union for hundreds of years and yet I still feel English. The union of the United Kingdom, for good or bad, has not destroyed Scottish, Welsh or English identity. So how on earth can people say that being in a much looser union with other countries destroy everything we stand for?

You cannot have a truly common market without a common currency (or at least a common exchange rate policy) and you can't have a common currency (as is now obvious) without a common fiscal policy. But does it really matter if we adopt the levels of financial morality of, say, Germany or Holland?

The fact is that successive governments have kept our economy afloat in part by trashing our own currency. Hague and Fox and others argue that this ability to gerrymander sterling in this way is a sign of independence and patriotism. It's the opposite. The bombed out state of the pound has led directly to the situation where is seems every other utility is foreign-owned. Our motor industry is run from Japan, India, Germany and Detroit.

Of course there's an argument against the European Union. There can be an argument against almost anything. But for most people arguing against the EU is just a cover for a visceral distrust of foreigners, particularly those with 'shiny shoes and small moustaches'. It's the political equivalent of standing up if you hate Palace. And it's nasty.

I would vastly rather be a member of the European community than a dangling plaything of successive US presidents. Send for Angela!

Weird argument about the UK's identity given that the Parliament has a majority SNP leadership. Then again the SNP are anti-union in the UK but would embrace union with the EU.

As for your view that those who are anti EU are just "nasty" I mean please.................and yet I bet you think you are liberal minded? Evidently there are people in this country who have small moustaches and shiny shoes who have a visceral distrust of those who do not share there own views.

 

[looney]

The fact is that successive governments have kept our economy afloat in part by trashing our own currency. Hague and Fox and others argue that this ability to gerrymander sterling in this way is a sign of independence and patriotism. It's the opposite.

This shows you have no grasp of the economic issue. To join the single currency we would have to fix, or "Gerrymander"as you put it, our exchange rate to the Ecu permanently. This was tried by major when we joined the ERM. And failed spectacularly because our economy is to different. Its syncronised to the US/world economy.

Fox et al call for a floating exchange rate, that adjusts to the countries relative value. That is the opposite of gerrymandering.

Oh and good luck with your identity crisis, I have no such problems.